[FT] RB Leipzig 4 - 0 Rangers

[pete 2,499]

After 3 trains and one flight I have a couple of hours to contemplate in Gatwick before the last leg home to Glasgow apparently 10 degrees warmer than Leipzig.

 

I wonder if everyone buys into this "we can only learn from playing better teams" theory being espoused by MW.

 

I note that AH conceded that 3 of the Leipzig goals came straight from us giving the ball away but also conceded that "we need to learn from that" must be this season's favourite phrase.

 

If I am correct did the European and Olympic champion 1953 Hungarians not play a factory team as a warm up before thrashing England 6-3 at Wembley then 7-1 in Budapest.

 

My point is - what does it do for player's confidence getting humped by an apparently fitter, faster, technically and tactically superior German team?

 

Wouldn't we be better playing a friendly against some second or third division team preferably somewhere a bit warmer where we might at least have a chance (albeit not a guarantee) of imposing our style and tactics such as they are on lesser or opponents?

 

I don't think we or our manager learned anything watching Leipzig run us ragged in sub zero temperatures yesterday.

 

To be quite honest it was embarrassing to watch apart from freezing cold.

 

 

If this team learned something after every dropped point they would all be f'n Bachelors of Arts

[Big Jaws 570]

I never seen the game live but reading the comments I expected it was an absolute demolishing so when I clicked on the link above for the full game I expected the worst. I've only watched the first 45 minutes of the first half. In fairness to all of the posters in this thread the second half might be where it all goes to hell so I'm not counting my chickens so to speak. I can only comment on what I have seen so far.

 

The first half from my perspective has been fairly even competitively. It should be noted that Leipzig do however look, at the moment, about a yard quicker and a slightly stronger than us. I have noted that we are not playing with any type of centre forward and only one real out ball down the left channel be it either McKay or Windass. Which save for one or two occasions Leipzig have covered well by tightening the space between their wide right forward, right mid field and right back forcing whoever is on the ball in that position to either cut inside where they have adequate cover or be forced further wide. A couple of occasions McKay has broken their defence and on one occasion, not the goal incident, Windass was ruled offside while taking off from the centre line a decision from the officials that has left me baffled. If you're standing foot is on the half way line then you cant be offside.

 

Conversely on our right hand side we have absolutely nothing. Tavernier is having yet another poor game, inside him Holt is a little lightweight for this level of competitiveness, although he has had one or two nice touches, being closed down which is forcing the ball backwards to either Kiernan, Halliday or due to his slight frame losing possession. Halliday is equally as ineffective as Tav is and is both slow in gaining control of the ball and also lightweight in any challenge which is never a good combination for the position he is supposed to be playing. Keirnan so far has looked surprisingly comfortable on the ball as has Wilson on the other side in spite of the fact that neither man is blessed with any pace, poise or elegance at all. On the whole though our defence has coped reasonably well with what Leipzig have had to throw at us while they've been in periods of sustained possession. The score on the other hand is 2-0 to Leipzig which is disappointing given how I've seen the game develop but aside from maybe two or three good counter attacks, which they scored from twice, I have seen very little from them that would suggest we are out of our depth in this game. So far we're not that far off them and in all fairness if we sorted out the three positions I've identified might see us retain possession and control the game more (of course I know what the score ends up but I'm looking at it from the perspective of what I would think at the time, which is we should never be two goals down here).

 

With that said I'm not sure what MW is looking to achieve with this line up and formation as it is very lopsided due to there being nothing on offer from our right flank that could be useful going forward. I'm not sure if he intended to use two wing backs to come narrow and break out into the space on the flanks to then cut the ball back to two attacking midfielders breaking through their lines or not but as yet aside from McKay we've not done any of that and these AM's breaking through have been none existent which goes some way to explaining our lack of chances. Barring Torals goal which was chopped off for Windass again being offside. Its difficult to say whether Windass is offside or not because of the camera angle. I expect MW will tweek the formation a little in the second half. Neither Hold nor Windass are using the oppositions formation on the pitch smart enough for me and because of that we need someone in the Garner position who can either hold the ball up or draw their centres out of their comfort zones, in between their lines, towards the ball. This ball retention is crucial and because of the lack of it we are losing possession of the ball high up the pitch through Tavernier, Halliday and Holt which has cost us twice so far. Windass has showed a couple of times but has been frustratingly quiet and Toral has popped up a couple of times but as yet no one seems to be on his wavelength or have sussed out how he is going to use the ball and as yet are making him look quite ordinary, his work on the ball struggling to find anyone where they should be for him when he has it.

 

So far we're two goals down and shouldn't be they are not that far in front of us other than pace in the wide areas, a yard quicker and stronger in the challenge. At the moment its all about these fine margins and as far as I'm concerned this is what I would expect from a BDL side. I'm interested to see how MW changes any of this and how we tire as the game goes on in the second half.

Edited January 16, 2017 by Big Jaws
formatting and spelling

[calscot 0]

For me, I'd like to see us against the type of teams that we will face in the Europa qualifiers or the group stages. I would at least like us to see us against teams who have a similar budget to us, as that doesn't happen in Scotland.

 

I think there is a bit of "what did you expect" when we're stuffed by more expensive sides which at the moment has only been Burnley, Celtic and Leipzig, and then there is "well we're going to drop some points" against lesser sides, and a bit of "so what" when we beat them. In these cases we learn nothing about where we really are and how good our manager is.

 

A manager looks like he is a cut above when he dispatches cheaper sides regularly with ease, and gives more expensive sides a good game with some good results, and is consistently better than sides with a similar budget.

 

At the moment we're not doing the first two, and the last is never tested.

[calscot 0]

I thought Leipzig were well worth their two goal lead although I think we may have a claim for that goal. However, they could have scored more and while two goals in a half can be said in a way that doesn't sound like a big difference, it's four goals a game.

 

I didn't really see us challenge although I missed the first 20 minutes trying to get Premier Sports, and then watched it on a poor quality stream.

 

I would say there were plenty of times where we put a few nice passes together - and then gave the ball away. And I'm not sure what system we're playing in defence but our marking is very strangely, a sort of zonal that is quite far away from the opposing players, and very flat footed too. They seem to stay too far off the opposition and let them run through the gaps. They also seem to be very late in seeing the runners and instead of already being on the half turn they are facing forwards and slow to get running back to the goal.

 

I thought we looked pretty much at least 3-4 goals a game behind them, so to say we were not far behind, to me is like saying that the whole of the SPL below us, are breathing right down our necks, just a smidgen off, a goal or two behind.

 

Actually, I wish they were as close to us as we are to RBL. It would be nice to see us win regularly in such a comfortable fashion.

[Big Jaws 570]

I've watched the second half now and within the first ten mins its clear that Leipzig have figured out where our weaknesses are. To be fair our three centres have done as much as they could have in terms of clearing their lines, Senderos looked fine to me also, but in saying that Leipzig have had all the play slicing through the field at will. If not for Gilks, who's been excellent, we'd have been down a few more already. As it has been all season our front six have more or less done nothing defensively staying in an attacking formation while we try to defend an oppositions pressing game. As much as I like Halliday Leipzig have realised he has absolutely no idea where he is on the pitch and that he plays like an attacking midfielder when he's supposed to be DFM. Sometimes he's as much as 40 yards in front of his defence or even out wide on either flank when we are being pressed. He's not supposed to be that out ball he's supposed to be in a defensive/countering position to receive and change play. Their number six Rani Khedira, who's not half as good as his brother, shows exactly how to play that role. Leipzig have used his lack of tactical awareness to their advantage constantly attacking the area he should be in and then switching or moving the ball to the wide areas. On more than one occasion Hyndman ended up being where Halliday should have been. The poor passing spread through the team as the game wore on be it tiredness or just simply an inability to put their foot on the ball and calm the game down. Third goal Holt loses possession in their half, Halliday is too far forward and as a result is unable to be anywhere near the ball to affect it leaving the defence wide open as they counter with four against three. Forth goal McKay loses the ball their two defensive midfield players again break through the centre of the pitch switching the ball out to the wide and again our centres are left having to track back as quickly as they can to try cut out the cross.

 

Summary of the second half Leipzig spotted the weakness and attack the space Halliday is supposed to be defending. Passing continues to deteriorate. Hyndman looks like he could have some promise. Waghorn for all his bulk is easily bullied off the ball by an 18 year old prospect. Thoroughly beaten by a quicker, stronger more tactically aware side than we are.

Edited January 16, 2017 by Big Jaws

[pete 2,499]

Thanks for that BJ it is much appreciated. Sorry you had to go through the game to do it though.

[calscot 0]

I found a pertinent quote from Walter Smith:

 

'The worrying factor is it looks as though the gulf between ourselves and the rest is liable to get bigger,' warned Smith.

'So it falls on the manager to find a way of playing that can bring us a level of success. 'The obvious way was the way I tried beforehand.

At the time, that turned out to be great for us.'

I'm not promoting the use the tactics he used (although, I for one enjoyed the games where we used them, and loved the success), but the main point is to "find a way of playing that can bring us a level of success", whatever that way of playing may be. However, trying to play a team of better players at their own game, sounds bound to fail, even if we play our A game at our best.

 

 

[colinstein 294]

we want entertaining football....Walter's time has passed....

[calscot 0]

we want entertaining football....Walter's time has passed....

 

I laboured the point but you still seem to have missed it - it's not about doing what Walter did, it's about doing something different to bridge the gap somewhat - whatever that is.

 

I'm surprised you found being played off the park so entertaining - but I suppose Leipzig were good to watch at times. If this is the future it's deeply depressing and I'd happily go back to the past as a better alternative.

 

Personally, for entertainment there is not even a sniff of a contest, to say I much preferred the games in the UEFA cup run is about as understated as you can get. Far, far more enjoyable to watch for me, and infinitely more exciting.

 

But each to their own...

[the gunslinger 3,366]

Smith is being more than a bit cheeky. He outspent most rangers managers even the second time.