Is the Warburton magic starting to fade?

[craig 5,199]

That's just one game and what we don't really know is if that could be that they had an off day, we were on, but we still lost - maybe they just turned the tables on us from better years, and ground out a result.

 

I think the main problem is that we're not just behind Aberdeen, we're behind three teams, which means, if one drops points the other two probably won't. That's a lot harder. There is also three times the chance that just one of the teams above us will get lucky or whatever and have a long streak of great form, while we're still struggling to put in a consistent run.

 

It's only a quarter of the way through but the problem is that we're already thinking that we can't afford to drop any points at all - and even our best sides dropped points here and there.

 

While people blame the board for lack of investment, I think they have backed the manager enough to expect a probable second place and an easy third, yet fourth is looking very possible.

 

Too premature to look at where we will finish in the table. you say that "4th is very possible" but so too is 2nd.

 

We are what, 3 points behind Aberdeen ? Having played away to both them and Celtic ? No guarantee that the tables will be turned in the corresponding fixture but you would rather play teams at home than away.

 

Until we have completed half the season and played all teams home and away I think it is a bit premature to be making any kind of predictions or suggestions - not saying that is what you are doing Cal

[craig 5,199]

At the moment for me it's not about alternative managers, what I want to see is a better acknowledgement from MW along with a sign that we're changing tack somewhat and taking a more flexible approach in our formation, style and first choices, and maybe starting to think a bit more about the opposition.

 

I think the best managers are able to work out their counterparts and the weaknesses in their teams. At the moment I think that's what's the other managers are doing to us.

 

Is that not exactly what he did on Sunday ? Not saying you specifically, but he is being pilloried for it in some quarters.

[Norris Cole 0]

With regards to Garner struggling in the Championship, Preston as a team struggled and indeed altered their style of play (to a more negative formation) to try and salvage their place in the league.

 

I hope he comes good but I would have chanced Sheffield Wednesday's arm and gone for Hooper. I got the impression that he was in his 30's but he is only 28 and knows the Scottish League. The Tims would have been beelin to

 

Now there's one right out of left field. Would he have come?

[BlackSocksRedTops 3,751]

Now there's one right out of left field. Would he have come?

 

Not sure tbh. Wednesday got him for about £2.5 from Norwich. They probably would want more in terms of a fee. I suppose you don't ask you don't find out?

[calscot 0]

Is that not exactly what he did on Sunday ? Not saying you specifically, but he is being pilloried for it in some quarters.

 

I agree he did yes. But was that just a one off against Celtic to prevent humiliation while giving us little chance of a win? It looked like it, and I'm not sure if that's the right direction to change heading to - it's also kind of humiliating in a way, but maybe not as much as a big defeat. I'm not pillorying him for it, but I find it a bit depressing that that is where we are.

 

In the end there's needs to be change, but it has to be a good change... What that is specifically, is up to the genius of the manager, I'm really hoping he can pull something out of the hat...

[calscot 0]

PS In regards to that change, I know it needed to be a surprise, but there was no acknowledgement that it didn't agree with his mantra. So, what I don't want to see is him going back to his old ways now, and saying we have to do plan A better, we just concentrate on ourselves, blah blah... Without some kind of qualification, that would be disrespectful to the fans.

[calscot 0]

Too premature to look at where we will finish in the table. you say that "4th is very possible" but so too is 2nd.

 

The problem is that 4th looks like shorter odds than 2nd right now... Unless there is a visible change in our fortunes pretty soon. That's pretty bad for Rangers at this stage of the competition.

 

We are what, 3 points behind Aberdeen ? Having played away to both them and Celtic ? No guarantee that the tables will be turned in the corresponding fixture but you would rather play teams at home than away.

 

As I said, if it was just Aberdeen I would be more confident - but it's harder to overtake three rivals than one, and we haven't yet seen that we really have the potential to do so, while our squad is shrinking in size, quality and confidence.

 

Until we have completed half the season and played all teams home and away I think it is a bit premature to be making any kind of predictions or suggestions - not saying that is what you are doing Cal

 

My prediction is still second, although my confidence in that is waning and needs a boost. I'm not a glass have empty guy, but the problem here is that currently the glass looks slightly less than half full... I desperately need a top up.

 

For our budget and a magic hat manager, I really expected it to be more than three quarters full at this stage.

[craig 5,199]

I agree he did yes. But was that just a one off against Celtic to prevent humiliation while giving us little chance of a win? It looked like it, and I'm not sure if that's the right direction to change heading to - it's also kind of humiliating in a way, but maybe not as much as a big defeat. I'm not pillorying him for it, but I find it a bit depressing that that is where we are.

 

In the end there's needs to be change, but it has to be a good change... What that is specifically, is up to the genius of the manager, I'm really hoping he can pull something out of the hat...

 

You will be unsurprised that I disagree with your assertion that he set out giving us little chance of a win.

 

His personnel selection included Miller, Windass, Holt, McKay and Tavernier - almost half our team were attack-minded players. I don't think that is setting your team out giving it little chance of a win. Just because it didn't come off doesn't mean that he gave us little chance of a win.

 

One could argue that bringing Hodson in was defensive in nature, but the flip side to that is that in the previous game their left hand side was their most potent with Tierney and Sinclair - bringing Hodson in was to negate Sinclair defensively but in Tavernier the expectation would have been to keep Tierney from foraging forward too often - as we know Tav likes to get forward and is reasonably pacy - the thought behind it, I suspect, would have been to have Tavernier being an attacking outlet, keeping Tierney pegged back so that he couldn't be an attacking threat alongside Sinclair.

 

The fact that didn't come off doesn't mean we had little chance of a win though. The personnel we put in the team were, for the most part, the same attacking personnel we have been using for more than a season. That team was never set out to do anything other than attempt to win a game.

 

Just because it doesn't come off doesn't mean you didn't set out to win the game - but I know you already know that.

 

It was a tactical attempt which never paid off, which happens.

 

Of course it is depressing where we are - but Celtic have better players, and we need to get used to that, or find a way to fund better players ourselves. I don't think it is humiliating to be honest - anyone with a sense of realism will realize that we are hamstrung right now. Humiliating would be getting pumped by them when we are spending the same amount of money on playing staff ala Advocaat's 6-2 pumping.

 

This is his first season in the top flight of Scottish football and his first season of really being scrutinized. I personally feel that he needs AT LEAST another season and probably more in all honesty. Look what happened to Man Utd all those years ago when they were on the verge of sacking Sir Alex and decided to stick with him - he created a dynasty. I'm not saying we can do the same - but often times sticking with the manager is the sensible option.

[theboyharley 5]

Celtic played a formation and style they have been playing for weeks confidently. We played a new system that we haven't used before with players out of form and fitness. A run of wins is a must, hopefully by the time new year comes round we've found a system and first 11 that's reasonably settled and it'll be a different game again. That cup game came to soon for us. A semi against Morton would've been much better with the run of fixtures we have from now until the end of the year but Celtic just came to soon. I still have this confidence we'll find our rhythm and kick on for the rest of 2016. Hearts away is probably our most difficult fixture but as we showed at the sheep away, we can dominate and are capable of taking points

Edited October 25, 2016 by theboyharley

[pete 2,499]

You will be unsurprised that I disagree with your assertion that he set out giving us little chance of a win.

 

His personnel selection included Miller, Windass, Holt, McKay and Tavernier - almost half our team were attack-minded players. I don't think that is setting your team out giving it little chance of a win. Just because it didn't come off doesn't mean that he gave us little chance of a win.

 

One could argue that bringing Hodson in was defensive in nature, but the flip side to that is that in the previous game their left hand side was their most potent with Tierney and Sinclair - bringing Hodson in was to negate Sinclair defensively but in Tavernier the expectation would have been to keep Tierney from foraging forward too often - as we know Tav likes to get forward and is reasonably pacy - the thought behind it, I suspect, would have been to have Tavernier being an attacking outlet, keeping Tierney pegged back so that he couldn't be an attacking threat alongside Sinclair.

 

The fact that didn't come off doesn't mean we had little chance of a win though. The personnel we put in the team were, for the most part, the same attacking personnel we have been using for more than a season. That team was never set out to do anything other than attempt to win a game.

 

Just because it doesn't come off doesn't mean you didn't set out to win the game - but I know you already know that.

 

It was a tactical attempt which never paid off, which happens.

 

Of course it is depressing where we are - but Celtic have better players, and we need to get used to that, or find a way to fund better players ourselves. I don't think it is humiliating to be honest - anyone with a sense of realism will realize that we are hamstrung right now. Humiliating would be getting pumped by them when we are spending the same amount of money on playing staff ala Advocaat's 6-2 pumping.

 

This is his first season in the top flight of Scottish football and his first season of really being scrutinized. I personally feel that he needs AT LEAST another season and probably more in all honesty. Look what happened to Man Utd all those years ago when they were on the verge of sacking Sir Alex and decided to stick with him - he created a dynasty. I'm not saying we can do the same - but often times sticking with the manager is the sensible option.

 

Totally agree Craig and I was also pushing the Tav to play midfield. I am not so sure that failed as that side we were pretty strong there and snuffed out tierney and Sinclair. The whole problem was we kept giving the ball away which made the defence start going deep which meant the midfield had to follow. Celtic pushed up and again and again we gave the ball away cheaply. Another thing that happened was we kept trying to play small triangles. When Celtic closed down we had the chance to switch the play to the opposite wing but almost every time Haliday or whoever turned back into the busy area and tried the same triangle and we could say goodbye to the ball. We just seemed to lack any confidence and started to just pass the ball anywhere.