Investment - Share Issue

[barca72 440]

forgive my ignorance cos I'm pretty thick, but what would be the point of getting this passed unless the board has either an appetite to reinvest or has new investors willing to put money into a business with little hope of an investment return.

and wouldn't the kind chaps who have given us loans not be first in the list to receive equity for what they have already given before investing many more.

Simply cannot see where the level of new capital we urgently require (for both playing staff and fabric maint) is going to come from.

 

In the past whenever we needed dosh DM simply got Lloyds to loan it of the back of MIH whilst perpetuating the myth that he was personally investing -most fans couldn't care less where the money comes from but all loans will eventually require settlement in some form be they soft or hard.

Do we all need to re-evaluate our expectations and settle for what we currently have, because frankly I cannot see any source of new funding or realistic chance of the current board/shareholders stumping up anything other than keeping our heads above water finance.

 

We could issue 'Convertible Cumulative Preference Shares' which supply a dividend to the holder, but because of the dividend payment we should not require to repay the capital amount raised 'in perputua'.

Assuming, of course, that the Board is in a position to issue these shares. { FS help out here. }

These securities, although called shares, have equity[shares] and debt elements. Being a debt element the amount paid should be called Interest rather than Dividend.

Now Convertible shares do have conditions allowing the holder to convert the CCPS’s into Preference shares but when you are guaranteed a permanent fixed dividend, why would you give that up for the possibility of an unpredictable dividend?

p.s. You could consult a certain D. Desmond for advice.

[craig 5,199]

We could issue 'Convertible Cumulative Preference Shares' which supply a dividend to the holder, but because of the dividend payment we should not require to repay the capital amount raised 'in perputua'.

Assuming, of course, that the Board is in a position to issue these shares. { FS help out here. }

These securities, although called shares, have equity[shares] and debt elements. Being a debt element the amount paid should be called Interest rather than Dividend.

Now Convertible shares do have conditions allowing the holder to convert the CCPS’s into Preference shares but when you are guaranteed a permanent fixed dividend, why would you give that up for the possibility of an unpredictable dividend?

p.s. You could consult a certain D. Desmond for advice.

 

You don't even need to pay the dividend on the Pref shares. If structured properly you can have them such that the dividend itself can be waived, should the holder wish to.

 

There shouldn't be a huge problem in issuing them either, particularly if you make them a non-voting class of share (would give Ashley very little reason to contend them in court).

 

There are certainly options but you also need to be careful how you do these things, not least because we have ongoing legal proceedings which actually surround the legality of previous ownership of the Club.

 

One would have to think that King et al are looking at such options because investment is clearly required.... but we do still need to get back to operating within our means

[forlanssister 3,087]

forgive my ignorance cos I'm pretty thick, but what would be the point of getting this passed unless the board has either an appetite to reinvest or has new investors willing to put money into a business with little hope of an investment return.

and wouldn't the kind chaps who have given us loans not be first in the list to receive equity for what they have already given before investing many more.

Simply cannot see where the level of new capital we urgently require (for both playing staff and fabric maint) is going to come from.

 

You may be a lot of things gaspard but ignorant or thick you're not.

 

In the past whenever we needed dosh DM simply got Lloyds to loan it of the back of MIH whilst perpetuating the myth that he was personally investing -most fans couldn't care less where the money comes from but all loans will eventually require settlement in some form be they soft or hard.

Do we all need to re-evaluate our expectations and settle for what we currently have, because frankly I cannot see any source of new funding or realistic chance of the current board/shareholders stumping up anything other than keeping our heads above water finance.

 

Of course existing loans need to be settled and the likeliest and cheapest option is conversion into equity and the inevitable dilution that comes with that. The dis-application of pre-emption rights like it or not is the only practicable way to attract new investors as we cannot perpetually draw from the soft loan well.

 

Whether you have to re-evaluate your expectations or not depends what your expectations are.

 

You know as well as I do that the only realistic option is to increase the capital base via a rights issue (most likely several) to tap those with an emotional tie as there simply isn't a logical case for institutional investment, if any institution holding any of my funds were to invest in RIFC plc I'd certainly pull my funds pronto.

 

Of course you could always subscribe to Club 1872

[forlanssister 3,087]

We could issue 'Convertible Cumulative Preference Shares' which supply a dividend to the holder, but because of the dividend payment we should not require to repay the capital amount raised 'in perputua'.

Assuming, of course, that the Board is in a position to issue these shares. { FS help out here. }

These securities, although called shares, have equity[shares] and debt elements. Being a debt element the amount paid should be called Interest rather than Dividend.

Now Convertible shares do have conditions allowing the holder to convert the CCPS’s into Preference shares but when you are guaranteed a permanent fixed dividend, why would you give that up for the possibility of an unpredictable dividend?

p.s. You could consult a certain D. Desmond for advice.

 

Not 100% certain but think they'd need a special resolution to create new classes of shares, while that may well be an option creating different classes of shares can create other problems, you just need to look across the city to see how that has given Desmond effective perpetual total control though he has given some of his cronies a piece of the action.

[craig 5,199]

Not 100% certain but think they'd need a special resolution to create new classes of shares, while that may well be an option creating different classes of shares can create other problems, you just need to look across the city to see how that has given Desmond effective perpetual total control though he has given some of his cronies a piece of the action.

 

Pretty sure they do FS. Even though they wouldn't be voting shares they would still be equity of the Company and I think that would require a Special Resolution.

 

I could be wrong along with you right enough

[the gunslinger 3,366]

I'd be surprised if both of you were wrong

[gaspard 562]

Whether you have to re-evaluate your expectations or not depends what your expectations are.

 

Of course you could always subscribe to Club 1872

 

FS, think everyone's expectation is success, and I think we all know very well what defines success at Rangers - just look in the trophy room if you need an example.

what troubles me is, given the that FM has been little more than crack-papering for years and our current squad has been assembled rom the bargain bucket and looks to be lacking on all fronts - just where is the investment coming from?

DK said months ago that the retail deal would be sorted in a matter of weeks, but the reality is we cannot expect any meaningful retail income for years.

TV money is a pittance

CL cash, currently looks like a pipe-dream

and we have very little on the books with any significant resale value.

 

Can't for the life of me see a queue at the front door desperate to throw money at us.

 

As for Club 1872, well I simply do not get it at all if I want shares I will buy them, they will be mine to pass on, mine to vote with and mine to proxy as I see fit.

Fan ownership! you cant get half a dozen bears to agree on anything never mind a collective.

Didn't they not buy a chunk on the market this year? why not wait for an issue and invest in RFC, found that very strange, didn't many of the individuals involved not criticise MA for doing the same thing?

Doomed to fail I'm afraid, and do you know what will stop it dead in it's tracks? the very thing you say we need to provide a capital injection - one or more pre-emptive issues would see their holding shrink and their noble ambitions go with it.

as for CCP shares I had those from my employer at one point, they were eventually scrapped and dissolved with no benefits ever or divvies ever coming my way.

[forlanssister 3,087]

FS, think everyone's expectation is success, and I think we all know very well what defines success at Rangers - just look in the trophy room if you need an example.

 

Looked in there many times as no doubt you have too.

 

what troubles me is, given the that FM has been little more than crack-papering for years and our current squad has been assembled rom the bargain bucket and looks to be lacking on all fronts

 

Didn't look to be lacking much to me on Saturday albeit that's from my pitchside worms eye view, how did it look from your padded seat?

 

just where is the investment coming from?

 

Pity you'll miss the AGM or you could've asked the question yourself. I imagine we'll see some conversion of the outstanding loans and a rights issue (both at the same price)

 

DK said months ago that the retail deal would be sorted in a matter of weeks, but the reality is we cannot expect any meaningful retail income for years.

 

Certainly looks that way though DK can barely be blamed for that fiasco. Perhaps we'll have a better understanding of just what's what in that regard after the next batch of courtroom jousting providing the case isn't held in camera.

 

TV money is a pittance

 

Always has been always will be.

 

CL cash, currently looks like a pipe-dream

 

It does, but it shouldn't even be factored into the equation it should never be considered anything other than a bonus as if our business plan needs to factor in CL money then we're absolutely f*&ked.

 

and we have very little on the books with any significant resale value.

 

True but we've certainly a hell of a lot more than we had 18 months ago for a relatively modest outlay.

 

Can't for the life of me see a queue at the front door desperate to throw money at us.

 

There isn't but there's enough of those with an emotional tie to see us through.

 

As for Club 1872, well I simply do not get it at all if I want shares I will buy them, they will be mine to pass on, mine to vote with and mine to proxy as I see fit.

 

I'm sure you'd place your proxy in very trustworthy hands indeed.

 

Fan ownership! you cant get half a dozen bears to agree on anything never mind a collective.

 

Thank f*&k we had three bears agreeing.

 

Didn't they not buy a chunk on the market this year? why not wait for an issue and invest in RFC, found that very strange, didn't many of the individuals involved not criticise MA for doing the same thing?

 

Indeed they did and while undoubtedly the preference would have been to purchase directly from the Club and ergo invest directly into the Club there are sound logical reasons behind the actions of both Club 1872 and MA doing what they did though for polar opposite reasons.

 

Doomed to fail I'm afraid, and do you know what will stop it dead in it's tracks? the very thing you say we need to provide a capital injection - one or more pre-emptive issues would see their holding shrink and their noble ambitions go with it.

 

You of course mean non pre-emptive issues. Of course there will in probability (depending on various factors) be a dilution (I'm sure you've read my musings on that subject in another thread) but there well may be an avenue to mitigate that to an extent.

 

as for CCP shares I had those from my employer at one point, they were eventually scrapped and dissolved with no benefits ever or divvies ever coming my way.

 

My heart bleeds, I trust the move from foie gras to black pudding wasn't too painful!