How much for Garner?

[JFK-1 1,693]

He doesn't have the worst managerial record in 'Scottish history' by any description but if it actually means Rangers history that might be the case at this early stage but even that isn't taking the perspective into account. No Rangers manager in history has ever had to take a team from the second tier then settle it into the top tier with anything like the financial restraints that Warburton has to work with.

[calscot 0]

He doesn't have the worst managerial record in 'Scottish history'

 

He has a worse record for combining the first 18 games of tier 2 with the first 7 games of tier 1, than a man who is considered the worst manager in history on here - despite having a far less restraints...

 

by any description but if it actually means Rangers history that might be the case at this early stage but even that isn't taking the perspective into account. No Rangers manager in history has ever had to take a team from the second tier then settle it into the top tier with anything like the financial restraints that Warburton has to work with.

 

No manager had to deal with what McCoist did but it didn't cut him any slack...

 

I think the meme was "excuses"...

 

There has to be some consistency, if previous managers' results are unacceptable during the worse off-field time in our history, then how can worse results have any mitigation?

[calscot 0]

Before I get the usual nonsense stuff about me "defending" McCoist or thinking he was a good manager - I'll help people by recaping that I said he wasn't good enough for Rangers in the second half of his first season, but I did argue against the extreme criticism that he certainly didn't deserve.

 

However, at the moment, I am consistent in that I don't think Warburton has significantly improved the results from someone I didn't think was good enough (if at all) and therefore not shown he is good enough either - yet. Other people argued McCoist was a terrible manager, so maybe that puts the lack of progress in results into perspective.

 

Or are people happy to have mediocre results relative to our budget, as long as we play the ball almost exclusively on the ground and dominate the possession in most games?

[rbr 1,266]

This must go down as one of the most depressing threads ever in gersnet so history , some of the posts on here are cringe worthy at best , seriously I expected better from this site

[JFK-1 1,693]

Before I get the usual nonsense stuff about me "defending" McCoist or thinking he was a good manager - I'll help people by recaping that I said he wasn't good enough for Rangers in the second half of his first season, but I did argue against the extreme criticism that he certainly didn't deserve.

 

However, at the moment, I am consistent in that I don't think Warburton has significantly improved the results from someone I didn't think was good enough (if at all) and therefore not shown he is good enough either - yet. Other people argued McCoist was a terrible manager, so maybe that puts the lack of progress in results into perspective.

 

Or are people happy to have mediocre results relative to our budget, as long as we play the ball almost exclusively on the ground and dominate the possession in most games?

 

No one is happy with the results and no one would accept it staying like that but most of us including myself don't think it will stay like that. The team is beginning to perform and we expect the 'fine margins' Warburton talks of to start becoming more equably spread and the overall context of all this is that we're in no different a position than we were before Sunday.

 

Before Sunday we were 3 points off second place and we're still 3 points off second place which is hardly reason for deep despondency.

[calscot 0]

No one is happy with the results and no one would accept it staying like that but most of us including myself don't think it will stay like that. The team is beginning to perform and we expect the 'fine margins' Warburton talks of to start becoming more equably spread and the overall context of all this is that we're in no different a position than we were before Sunday.

 

Before Sunday we were 3 points off second place and we're still 3 points off second place which is hardly reason for deep despondency.

 

I agree with most of that, although I do see we're all now focusing on second place; I can't help but be a wee bit despondent about that, at this early stage...

[craig 5,199]

As I've said before, whether MW is sacked should not only be based on where we finish but the circumstances behind it and how he has performed as a manager and in progressing the team towards a future challenge for the title.

 

At the moment he's floundering and his results are worse than "the worst manager in Scottish history"... I warned before he came that merely playing the ball on the deck does not guarantee results and that it can end up very frustrating to watch, rather than entertaining.

 

While Warburton may have brought more "professionalism", organisation and technology to the club, (which isn't such a great achievement considering the board and situation we've had, along with the great strides in technology which wasn't there before), as well as a so called "footballing philosophy") there is more to football than that, and it requires a certain inspiration and canniness that he's not displaying.

 

His progress is way behind the likes of Robbie Neilson, who has had far less resources at his disposal and whose club was in a similar situation.

 

I don't think people want him sacked at the moment at all, that's just making it up for argument sake, the straw man and all that, it's that he's doing incredibly badly, and looks like he's going into a dead end route with no clue about how to find a new direction. I think what some fans want is acknowledgement that plan A is not quite working and that we're switching to plan B or at least plan A.2.

 

I really don't see how losing a 9 point lead over a more expensive team is "unacceptable", where being a potential 10 points behind after 7 games along with a humiliation by Celtic, and in 7 place behind 5 less expensive teams is fine, and just needs more time.

 

Fans are concerned and rightly so, this season is already looking like a disaster for a club like Rangers - and history has shown there is no sympathy at all for the position the club is in, or any perceived lack of time to get it right.

 

How is his progress behind Neilson's ? Surely the time to judge that would be the end of this season when they have played against the same teams as each other in the same division ?

 

The technology strides were already there when McCoist was manager, he just paid little interest in such things. That is his issue, not technology's. Whilst you can downplay such things as "not great achievements" Ally and indeed his predecessor made absolutely zero effort in looking at the Club holistically and integrating the whole footballing operation to a point that every single youth team plays with the same philosophy as the senior team and, once they hit 11-a-side, they play the same formation too. Now, you may find it makes sense to allow the Academy coaches to just play to whatever formation and tactics they like, but it is that type of philosophy which saw Sinclair produce virtually nothing out of the Academy for the senior team to use. There is a technical board in place which includes Academy directors and the senior team management so that they can discuss and determine club philosophies that go all the way through the club. Ally showed little interest in that, and neither did Walter. What Warburton has done but you seem to give very little credit to him for doing is not only bringing a professionalism to the club but also bringing with him a business mentality from outside the footballing world, creating proper, appropriate structures - not only that but also streamlining the playing staff at the senior team level and Academy level to ensure that they are hungry for game time, and on reasonable but not obscene wages. I could go on as there are some other things that I have heard from inside the Club. But rather than downplaying what he has achieved, which is what you have done, I will give him credit for bringing it to the Club because it simply wasn't there before - and with absolutely no reason for it not to be there.

 

Nobody said that anyone wants him sacked right now - but there most certainly have been rumblings amongst our own support, not just the likes of Chris Sutton, that he is on a shoogly peg. don't be fooled into thinking they aren't.

 

Really ? You are comparing the situation between the season Ally's team blew their league in the top flight to MW's team being 7 points behind Celtic right now ? The team McCoist had at that time, and the money that was spent on it was far, far, far greater and with better quality than the one that MW has had to cobble together. The financial disparity between the team that McCoist had then vs Lennon's was far less than the one between Warburton's now and Rodgers' team. Far less. As for the remainder of the sentence about 5 less expensive teams - if we were going to use that type of analysis then just as well leagues aren't won in the 1st week of the season. The time to judge isn't after 7 games - it isn't even 25% of the way into the season. As I've said before about statistics you can use them whatever way you wish to prove a point.

 

Fans can be concerned all they like, and as you say they are entitled to be concerned. But you yourself like to introduce other "factors" which may be at play rather than the simplistic we won or lost analogy. One such factor being that the vast majority of this team have never played in top flight football in any country and indeed Warburton himself doesn't know, or wouldn't know first hand until this season, just how well equipped his players would be for the campaign (we knew we needed defenders, he tried and they wanted to go elsewhere - cant do much about that. Strikers - he brought Dodoo in and Garner - so he has tried to bring players in which the fans felt were in positions that needed strengthened) - IF there is any money for investment in the playing squad one would certainly hope that improvements would be made in January and next summer. But even looking at his recruitment in the summer past, I don't think that many fans didn't think that players of the caliber of Barton & Kranjcar would improve us.

 

But, all that said, as MW himself says, it is a results driven business and he will, rightly or wrongly, be judged based on results. Our financial circumstance dictates that we don't have much right to compete with Celtic right now - they can spend more on one player than we could on our whole squad - but, this season, I would contend that finishing lower than 3rd would be a failure. But would I want to get rid of the manager ? No, I wouldn't. I still think he deserved a 2nd season, AT LEAST, in the top flight to see whether he can compete or not.

 

Getting rid of him, if that time comes, is only part of the solution..... who would we replace him with ? Be careful what you wish for and all that.

[craig 5,199]

He has a worse record for combining the first 18 games of tier 2 with the first 7 games of tier 1, than a man who is considered the worst manager in history on here - despite having a far less restraints...

 

 

 

No manager had to deal with what McCoist did but it didn't cut him any slack...

 

I think the meme was "excuses"...

 

There has to be some consistency, if previous managers' results are unacceptable during the worse off-field time in our history, then how can worse results have any mitigation?

 

How many points did we secure in the 2nd tier of Scottish football under Ally ? Sure... I hear you saying "but Ally never had the team for the whole season" - there was absolutely zero indication that Ally's team could, even if they wanted to, improve upon their performances and results when he left.

 

Ally was given plenty of slack and by plenty of people, me included. That's just revisionism.

[craig 5,199]

This must go down as one of the most depressing threads ever in gersnet so history , some of the posts on here are cringe worthy at best , seriously I expected better from this site

 

Couldn't agree more. In fact, I would actually go as far as saying some of the posts are bordering on trolling.

[MacK1950 2,399]

No doubt Warburton has the coaching and tactical knowledge and I expect him to be able to turn things around.

The thing that I no longer do is listen to his interviews etc. as they are so repetitive and in my view boring.

Glad we are not playing McCoist's type of football any longer and my neck has recovered from looking skyward so often,but sometimes the almighty lump out from goal or defense is needed.