How much for Garner?

[pete 2,499]

A big difference from last season is that the full-backs had already scored a barrow load but in the SPL they cannot play as gung ho as they could in the Championship. There are very few top leagues where a full-back will score as much as ours did last season.

[ian1964 10,761]

A big difference from last season is that the full-backs had already scored a barrow load but in the SPL they cannot play as gung ho as they could in the Championship. There are very few top leagues where a full-back will score as much as ours did last season.

 

I agree they have not scored as many goals as last season,however I still think they are getting forward the same!,they are having to do a bit more defending but are still getting forward a lot

Edited September 27, 2016 by ian1964

[calscot 0]

I think the problem is that we can't afford much time for Garner to settle - we're creating chances but not scoring enough and because of this, the title is already a bit of an unrealistic fantasy. He was the guy brought in to fix this under-performance but has looked pretty ordinary - and the likes of Kris Boyd is more prolific for a struggling Kilmarnock.

 

It's best to judge him at the end of the season but the lack of goals in this opening period has really cost us dear. Just Averaging two goals a game would have completely changed our position in the table. Only Celtic are doing at least that, and they are averaging almost 4, so the fact their defence has been pretty average at best makes little difference.

[craig 5,199]

For me, the money should have gone on someone abroad who could potentially be sold on for a lot more. Signing mediocre players from the lower divisions in England isn't good enough.

 

Either way, I see little value for money there. Celtic got Hooper for not much more and he was performing to a much higher level in the same English division.

 

That was 6 years ago and, even in the Championship, the financial structure has greatly surpassed what it was when they signed Hooper. Not only that but 2.4 million is 60% more than what we are paying for Garner so hardly "not much more". Lest we also forget that that 2.4 million 6 years ago would have exponentially increased in 6 yrs given the financial structure of the game in England these days, at the same time as the game in Scotland has financially contracted in that same period.

 

If you are using Hooper as an example then use his talent, not the financial outlay because it is a red herring to say "not much more" and at the same time completely ignore how the financial goalposts have moved in the intervening period.

[craig 5,199]

Let's give him more than a few games before we label him a waste of money.

 

Its the new hip thing Frankie. Allow someone 5 minutes in their job and then label them.

 

It is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion to be even having this conversation (no offense to the OP - it is a forum after all) after less than a handful of games.

 

It USED to be that players would be given as much as a season to settle and then you would see what they were truly made of. Some settled immediately, some took part or a full season to settle, and some never truly settled - but in every instance we gave them far more than a handful of matches to prove themselves.

 

Today's younger generation have a sad habit of the desire of "instant gratification" (I have an 11 yr old son and at times it drives me nuts) and it seems that the need for instant success has leaked into football too.

[ian1964 10,761]

Its the new hip thing Frankie. Allow someone 5 minutes in their job and then label them.

 

It is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion to be even having this conversation (no offense to the OP - it is a forum after all) after less than a handful of games.

 

It USED to be that players would be given as much as a season to settle and then you would see what they were truly made of. Some settled immediately, some took part or a full season to settle, and some never truly settled - but in every instance we gave them far more than a handful of matches to prove themselves.

 

Today's younger generation have a sad habit of the desire of "instant gratification" (I have an 11 yr old son and at times it drives me nuts) and it seems that the need for instant success has leaked into football too.

 

This covers the whole squad IMO,even including MW & DW!

[craig 5,199]

This covers the whole squad IMO,even including MW & DW!

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

Whilst I completely accept that at Rangers there is a NEED for success, it gets on my nerves to see that after a handful of games back in the to flight where only Lee Wallace, Kenny Miller and Danny Wilson in our squad have any experience that we have a "Warburton has 2 games to save his job" nonsense. Sure, it has extended beyond just this season but, SC final aside, we had absolutely nothing to play for in the final 7 or 8 games of last season's league campaign.

 

We see it all the time these days sadly.

 

It is easy for me to say as I have had a small insight into what goes on at Auchenhowie - but Warburton hasn't only brought with him his management of players - there is so much more that he has brought to Rangers other than being manager of the team. And whilst I completely understand that it is as manager where he will ultimately be judged I also think we need to be careful because you never know what you are going to get.

 

The increase in professionalism at Auchenhowie has been nothing short of exceptional since Warburton came in - with just small tweaks too - things like videoing every single team, Academy through to senior (aside from the youngest Academy players) or having complete statistical analysis of certain game traits lke distance run, max vo2, sprint distances etc - and then each player is given a comparison to a world class player in the same position so they can see where they are vs a world class player - or even the fact that each player has his own internal website and after every single game each player is provided with a video of the full 90 minutes as well as every moment that he had touches on the ball and there is an expectation that every single player reviews both sets of video.

 

These are small things that have the potential to make great strides within the club overall.

 

If we were to sack MW (IMHO a very unwise move as it does nothing more than bring further instability) then how do we know that we wont be going back to a manager who let the players train as they pleased, encouraged them to be the ones to lead sessions, went to not "direct" football but "lump it up the pitch" football and who also seemed to have little care, focus or attention on the WHOLE Club rather than just the 1st team squad.

 

Be careful what you wish for IMO.

 

It is MW's 1st season in the top flight of Scottish football. For me, I am a little bit of a traditionalist in that I don't believe that we should be sacking managers because they have one season without success. I don't even think that this season is the one to judge MW - NEXT season is the season to judge him, once he knows the teams and types of players that his team will come up against. And.... lest we forget.... he is also still doing this with one hand tied behind his back financially in terms of competing with Celtic (yes, 2nd highest resources in the country - but something that few will mention when they say this is that when Rangers or Celtic come calling the wages expectations rise exponentially without the quality of player necessarily doing the same).

 

Obvious though it is.... yes, I am still firmly in the MW camp.

[ian1964 10,761]

Couldn't agree more.

 

Whilst I completely accept that at Rangers there is a NEED for success, it gets on my nerves to see that after a handful of games back in the to flight where only Lee Wallace, Kenny Miller and Danny Wilson in our squad have any experience that we have a "Warburton has 2 games to save his job" nonsense. Sure, it has extended beyond just this season but, SC final aside, we had absolutely nothing to play for in the final 7 or 8 games of last season's league campaign.

 

We see it all the time these days sadly.

 

It is easy for me to say as I have had a small insight into what goes on at Auchenhowie - but Warburton hasn't only brought with him his management of players - there is so much more that he has brought to Rangers other than being manager of the team. And whilst I completely understand that it is as manager where he will ultimately be judged I also think we need to be careful because you never know what you are going to get.

 

The increase in professionalism at Auchenhowie has been nothing short of exceptional since Warburton came in - with just small tweaks too - things like videoing every single team, Academy through to senior (aside from the youngest Academy players) or having complete statistical analysis of certain game traits lke distance run, max vo2, sprint distances etc - and then each player is given a comparison to a world class player in the same position so they can see where they are vs a world class player - or even the fact that each player has his own internal website and after every single game each player is provided with a video of the full 90 minutes as well as every moment that he had touches on the ball and there is an expectation that every single player reviews both sets of video.

 

These are small things that have the potential to make great strides within the club overall.

 

If we were to sack MW (IMHO a very unwise move as it does nothing more than bring further instability) then how do we know that we wont be going back to a manager who let the players train as they pleased, encouraged them to be the ones to lead sessions, went to not "direct" football but "lump it up the pitch" football and who also seemed to have little care, focus or attention on the WHOLE Club rather than just the 1st team squad.

 

Be careful what you wish for IMO.

 

It is MW's 1st season in the top flight of Scottish football. For me, I am a little bit of a traditionalist in that I don't believe that we should be sacking managers because they have one season without success. I don't even think that this season is the one to judge MW - NEXT season is the season to judge him, once he knows the teams and types of players that his team will come up against. And.... lest we forget.... he is also still doing this with one hand tied behind his back financially in terms of competing with Celtic (yes, 2nd highest resources in the country - but something that few will mention when they say this is that when Rangers or Celtic come calling the wages expectations rise exponentially without the quality of player necessarily doing the same).

 

Obvious though it is.... yes, I am still firmly in the MW camp.

 

Since we were pumped out of the top division this is easily the best team we have seen!,and we will continue to improve on the pitch as well as off it. I agree the manager and players should be under pressure tto be successful,that is what it is like to play for and manage Rangers,but we shouldn't be expecting to run before we can walk,my expectation is to finish 2nd and if we don't should we expect MW to be sacked?,I don't think so but it all depends on our progression by the end of this season,that will be the time to judge,IMO.

[Darthter 542]

I've not seen anything from Garner to indicate that he will be a prolific goal scorer for us.

 

With Forester last season, he showed glimpses of potential, but lacked any real consistency. Garner on the other hand hasn't done any of that. It's not as if he's been unlucky and missed a number of chances - you could put that down to being unsettled....he's not getting into positions to get the chances.

 

Kenny Millar is generally not what I would call a prolific goal scorer, but he stretches defenses....makes them work. Again, Garner ain't doing that. In the meantime, Waggy is stuck out on wide, which is probably not his best position.

 

Hopefully, time will prove us all wrong & Garner will start banging in the goals.....but I'll not hold my breath.

[calscot 0]

As I've said before, whether MW is sacked should not only be based on where we finish but the circumstances behind it and how he has performed as a manager and in progressing the team towards a future challenge for the title.

 

At the moment he's floundering and his results are worse than "the worst manager in Scottish history"... I warned before he came that merely playing the ball on the deck does not guarantee results and that it can end up very frustrating to watch, rather than entertaining.

 

While Warburton may have brought more "professionalism", organisation and technology to the club, (which isn't such a great achievement considering the board and situation we've had, along with the great strides in technology which wasn't there before), as well as a so called "footballing philosophy") there is more to football than that, and it requires a certain inspiration and canniness that he's not displaying.

 

His progress is way behind the likes of Robbie Neilson, who has had far less resources at his disposal and whose club was in a similar situation.

 

I don't think people want him sacked at the moment at all, that's just making it up for argument sake, the straw man and all that, it's that he's doing incredibly badly, and looks like he's going into a dead end route with no clue about how to find a new direction. I think what some fans want is acknowledgement that plan A is not quite working and that we're switching to plan B or at least plan A.2.

 

I really don't see how losing a 9 point lead over a more expensive team is "unacceptable", where being a potential 10 points behind after 7 games along with a humiliation by Celtic, and in 7 place behind 5 less expensive teams is fine, and just needs more time.

 

Fans are concerned and rightly so, this season is already looking like a disaster for a club like Rangers - and history has shown there is no sympathy at all for the position the club is in, or any perceived lack of time to get it right.