Opinion appreciated on PNE forum argument

[JFK-1 1,693]

I'm aware Frankie just recently mentioned not discussing other forums but this one isn't about another Rangers forum which I thought may make a difference and as he suggested I did indeed take my issue there but if is this is still uncomfortable on any level for you Frankie you're welcome to remove it and I wont have any complaints.

 

So here's the deal. I have been looking in on a PNE forum since the Garner transfer and today one of them posted a thread with this title.

 

Garner wages at Rangers?

 

They were discussing a 12K a week wage which they're getting from this Telegraph article. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/sep/11/rangers-celtic-mark-warburton-scottish-premiership

 

I didn't say anything at all on it even after a few derogatory remarks about Rangers until this one came in.

 

Less! Can see Rangers going bust again.

 

Now there was some probably worse than that being said but for some reason that one got me going so I responded to it and it wasn't even a direct response as I didn't quote him and a few others posts had been made before I went in with this.

 

Nobody including the Telegraph knows what any individual players earn but I would guess Garner on 12K would be a minimum. As for anyone going bust over it that's completely illogical. Let's say for example the entire 22 man first team squad was on 15K a week which they're definitely not but lets for arguments sake say they were.

 

That amounts to around 17 million a year and for a club that just collected around £25 million on season ticket sales alone that wouldn't be a big issue. And as I said they're not all on that much but I would estimate Garner to be one of the higher earners.

 

Though it wasn't aimed directly at him the one who made the going bust again remark obviously twigged that it was indeed indirectly directed at him and came back with this.

 

How much have you spent on transfer fees? Garner is rumoured to be 1.8 million...

 

So I responded this time directly quoting him.

 

Nothing, the rest of the Summer transfers were free agents aside from I suppose Rossiter who was a free agent but came for a 250K development fee and Crooks plus Windass who were also free agents and who came the same way for 60K each so a total of 370K aside from the Garner fee which is apparently actually half now and half next year.

 

So if the Garner fee were the upper estimate all of it would amount to around 1.2 million or so in the Summer. They can pull that much through ticket sales alone from a single cup tie at Ibrox.

 

He left it at that, deflated? Defeated? I don't know but as far as I was concerned that was the end of it until another steps in and directly quoting his first remark about going bust again says this.

 

Definitely. Tinpot team living beyond their means.

 

Again I couldn't let it slide so I dived right in with this in direct response.

 

Can you elaborate? I would be interested in the elaboration but would be frankly surprised if you did in any meaningful way though maybe you will surprise me. Perhaps start with explaining how a team that just pulled £25 million in season tickets alone can't pay a player 12k a week.

 

He comes back with this which was little more than I expected in truth.

 

I've never said anything meaningful. I'm not starting now. Hope that helps.

 

So I took one more swipe at him with this.

 

Immensely helpful. What you said was meaningless, entirely devoid of any logic, therefore impossible to qualify with any amount of elaboration. And to be fair talking while saying nothing is a relatively common phenomenon on the Internet. You continue doing that and most people might not even notice amid the flood of vacuous discourse.

 

He didn't come back and I was thinking that would be the end of it till yet another showing a moderator tag jumps in with this.

 

On the plus side at least he can claim to be on a forum related to his football team.

 

Rather than seemingly some sad transatlantic loner who spends their time posting about Scottish football on English championship teams forums whilst claiming a moral high ground on "vacuous discourse"

 

The way out is over there ->

 

Well for one thing I didn't even start the thread talking about wages payed by a SCOTTISH FOOTBALL CLUB and was pretty pissed off that a moderator felt it was fitting to talk to me like that for nothing more than responding to someone running my club down with what amounted to little more than fact sprinkled with a little sarcasm. So back in I goes again and this time i'm going to have to insert some quotes I put in the post to maintain the continuity of it.

 

It's easier to just directly copy all of it.

 

---

 

Originally Posted by jakehake

On the plus side at least he can claim to be on a forum related to his football team.

 

Rather than seemingly some sad transatlantic loner who spends their time posting about Scottish football on English championship teams forums whilst claiming a moral high ground on "vacuous discourse"

 

The way out is over there ->

 

Is that meaningful to what was being discussed? Do you even know what was being discussed? Let me enlighten you. It started with him saying this.

 

Definitely. Tinpot team living beyond their means.

 

Which makes no sense but since he may have info i'm not aware of I replied with this.

 

Can you elaborate? I would be interested in the elaboration but would be frankly surprised if you did in any meaningful way though maybe you will surprise me. Perhaps start with explaining how a team that just pulled £25 million in season tickets alone can't pay a player 12k a week. Which he totally failed to elaborate on in fact conceded he was basically talking and saying nothing with any validity.

 

Then you come along and also fail to say anything on that issue but rather ramble on some nonsense about English Championship forums on a board that has the title GENERAL FOOTBALL Non PNE Football Topics which is littered with football threads entirely unrelated to the English Championship.

 

And I'm bizarrely posting about Scottish football on a thread I didn't start discussing wages payed by A SCOTTISH FOOTBALL CLUB??? All that passed right over your head? Is everybody else on the thread talking about something else here? Aside from you that is?

 

As for any moral high ground what in the world are you talking about? I would suggest you abstain from using phrases you have heard someplace but don't know how to apply. And can you tell me what type of moderation it is to behave like a common troll while saying absolutely nothing on topic? The very definition of a troll?

 

You seriously think it's me who has an issue when I respond to such a comment as he made about the club I follow? I know not everyone around here is so mindlessly anti social because I have in fact had private messages from some around here apologizing for that kind of thing and then you come here displaying a 'moderator' tag and mindlessly troll too? That makes it even worse.

 

Let me just show you one thing that was said in a PM to me on this forum.

 

You may have noticed that when a thread gets past 10 posts where it's been a generally good conversation some have to start causing issues and start to name call etc. Decent posts all round from you but don't get dragged into it by those with no life outside this forum. I don't post that often as I use a different PNE forum with much less hate about.

 

Perceptive insight from that guy don't you think? Or maybe he's just claiming an unmerited moral high ground? Are you a sad Northern loner with no life outside trolling on this forum and is that as acceptable to say to you as you think your equivalent was to me considering i'm responding to your directing comments at me while you weren't.

---

 

Presumably he may feel so owned I will be banned but hey who cares. But back to the reason for this post. Am I being anti social? Deserving of a potential ban? Or are they the ones being out of order to a forum visitor who had said absolutely nothing negative about them or their club and even after I felt there were negative, entirely unnecessary, and inaccurate comments being made about my club still remained on topic and while being a shade sarcastic still more or less remained civil. Worst thing I said was little more than an almost direct return of what he said to me.

[ian1964 10,761]

Good on you for educating them,I could never go on another teams forum and speak about my team,it's hard enough posting on a Rangers forum as a Rangers fan!.

[JFK-1 1,693]

Good on you for educating them,I could never go on another teams forum and speak about my team,it's hard enough posting on a Rangers forum as a Rangers fan!.

 

I don't in general go on other forums and talk about Rangers but if someone else there does and makes an absurd remark such as the above example. "Can see Rangers going bust again" and that simply because Rangers are paying a player 12K a week i'm not going to let that slide. I'm going to demand some information to support that view and when they can't provide anything there is a tendency to become annoyed that I wanted a claim to be supported.

 

Granted I can be a tad sarcastic about it at times but it's often the case that they are simply taking digs for no good reason and though a touch sarcastic I do remain just about civil. And that on a PNE forum. A team with a home gate of maybe about 10 to 12,000 and who were apparently paying Garner 6K a week think Rangers with over 40,000 season tickets alone can't pay him double that without going bust?

 

If they're serious their math among other things is way below par.

[der Berliner 3,808]

Quite a bit probably has to do with the media coverage. And if people look at the Scottish media or BBC Scotland, they can get all sorts of funny ideas about us.

[JFK-1 1,693]

Quite a bit probably has to do with the media coverage. And if people look at the Scottish media or BBC Scotland, they can get all sorts of funny ideas about us.

 

It's actually still been ongoing beyond the posts I illustrated here and I don't know why but a number of them seem to have a determination to take digs at Rangers though maybe some joined in simply because I was so thoroughly bitch slapping their buddies but even before I had said anything at all it had started. This is the thread from the start. By just the 4th post some arse is making snide remarks .

 

http://www.pne-online.net/forum/showthread.php?100517-Garner-wages-at-Rangers

[Frankie 8,663]

No issue with you highlighting their ignorance but it looks as if you're wasting your time.

 

We have to appreciate we've just taken one of their best players so suffice to say they won't be happy.

[Bluedell 5,679]

Nobody including the Telegraph knows what any individual players earn but I would guess Garner on 12K would be a minimum. As for anyone going bust over it that's completely illogical. Let's say for example the entire 22 man first team squad was on 15K a week which they're definitely not but lets for arguments sake say they were.

 

That amounts to around 17 million a year and for a club that just collected around £25 million on season ticket sales alone that wouldn't be a big issue. And as I said they're not all on that much but I would estimate Garner to be one of the higher earners.

 

 

Playing devil's advocate:

 

£15K a week for 22 players = £17m. Then you have National Insurance at £2m.

Not forgetting the management team and the other 140 people that the club employs.

 

Not forgetting the other £10m+ of expenditure, and any costs of a capital item.

 

Gate receipts of £25m? Will they really be that much? They were £24m in 2009 and that was a season where we reached the final of both domestic competitions, won the league and had a game in Europe. Remember that a sixth of our income is VAT and is lost to us.

 

I appreciate what you say about not all the squad being on £15K a week, but with what I've said and I've ignored signing on fees etc, we are still needing a bit of financial support from our shareholders and are not in a position to be blasé about £15K/week.

[JFK-1 1,693]

Playing devil's advocate:

 

£15K a week for 22 players = £17m. Then you have National Insurance at £2m.

Not forgetting the management team and the other 140 people that the club employs.

 

Not forgetting the other £10m+ of expenditure, and any costs of a capital item.

 

Gate receipts of £25m? Will they really be that much? They were £24m in 2009 and that was a season where we reached the final of both domestic competitions, won the league and had a game in Europe. Remember that a sixth of our income is VAT and is lost to us.

 

I appreciate what you say about not all the squad being on £15K a week, but with what I've said and I've ignored signing on fees etc, we are still needing a bit of financial support from our shareholders and are not in a position to be blasé about £15K/week.

 

I agree I was to some degree exaggerating income and entirely ignoring various outgoings which I knew at the time but I had already decided that they hadn't spent years obsessing on this as the sellick corporate tax experts have and would miss such details so was basically glossing over all that with something that wasn't too far away from reality anyway.

 

It wasn't an accounting exercise more of a scenario where I have become the type of person who finds the hackles are instantly raised when anybody pulls such utter drivel out of thin air for no good reason other than taking a swipe at a club and by extension a support who have never said a negative thing about them. Anytime I commented on their side even when they were lying in the drop zone recently it was always positive.

 

I hear enough of that type of mindless grunting from the usual suspects so when it came from this source who should have no reason whatsoever to start such garbage it set me off. And the thing is not a single one of them had a single thing to say that wasn't total nonsense so effectively I couldn't lose even if they tried to retreat into a pretending their nonsense contains any logic position.

 

It has to start getting through even a fog of willful stupidity when they see one of their own moderators being demonstrated to be so stupid the best he has is attacking a guest on the forum with complaints of talking about Scottish football on a thread in a GENERAL football section which one of THEM started about a Scottish football club.

 

Checkmate.

[Ser Barristan Selmy 222]

I'm not really sure why anyone on here would care what a Preston North End forum have to say.

[JFK-1 1,693]

I'm not really sure why anyone on here would care what a Preston North End forum have to say.

 

Same reason I care what anybody no matter who it is has to say about Rangers whether it be print press, radio, TV, or whatever. It's all cumulative and is in the same basket of the various comments we get from clubs we're about to play etc putting the new club babble into programs or whatever.

 

I'm not going to scour the net trying to get into every instance but when I see it on a forum I have an account on and can say something I will.