Banner for Saturday

[pete 2,499]

On another note, if we were ever to be invited into a European or a cross border British environment these songs, under no circumstances, would be tolerated by governing bodies.

The governing bodies themselves would be objective and would hold no agenda, it would simply be that these songs would not be tolerated. In the plus side, it is without question that the IRAoeke songbook and others that are alike would similarly not be tolerated and would cause them much harm as I feel they would have more problems than we do.

These songs of theirs would no go down well at any of the grounds down south.

 

Do you not think European teams have songs that should be banned The billy boys is light compared to some. I know Dortmund have a song that says something like slitting open a Schalke supporters stomach and ripping out the insides. I admit I only heard it on a supporters bus as we were passing the Schalke stadium on the motorway and not in the Dortmund stadium.

[cooponthewing 1,139]

Do you not think European teams have songs that should be banned The billy boys is light compared to some. I know Dortmund have a song that says something like slitting open a Schalke supporters stomach and ripping out the insides. I admit I only heard it on a supporters bus as we were passing the Schalke stadium on the motorway and not in the Dortmund stadium.

 

It was the word Fenian I was referring to Pete. There is no way UEFA will stand for that. Similarly for the mhanks and their republican terrorist supporting rhetoric.

To be fair I think the same can be said cross border here too. As you say, there are many other songs from various clubs that are sung, the ones that are simply not tolerated by UEFA are those with sectarian/racial undertones.(or just blatant?)

[craig 5,199]

Sorry Craig, I'm once again going to disagree with you. Maybe you just haven't thought about it but you are equating the mocking of victims of accidental death with the mocking of covering up perpetrators of paedophilia, which is a bit extreme.

 

Paedophiles are NOT victims and you seem to be accidentally condoning doing nothing about them. Hushing up such stuff has led to so much suffering by children so I can't understand your attitude about it being hypocritical to condemn the cover ups.

 

The suggestion that demanding justice for victims of paedophiles is equal to actually celebrating accidental mass deaths is something I find quite appalling.

 

I don't condone the using of the Torbet stuff for point scoring, it's too serious, and always want any banners we show and songs we sing to be totally about Rangers (and seem to be in a tiny minority there) - BUT to me, the two things you equate are completely diametrically opposed, and only encourage the brushing under the carpet of horrific crimes.

 

I can't subscribe to that.

 

Why am I not surprised you disagree with me cal

 

Whilst I recognize what you are saying I would be absolutely flabbergasted if you actually believed that any portraying of Jimmy Savile on Saturday by Rangers fans would be treated in any way other than as an affront to his victims by the media. There is absolutely NO WAY whatsoever that the media will portray this as "Rangers fans exposing systematically covered up paedophilia". It will absolutely be portrayed far and wide in the media as Rangers fans poking fun at victims of child abuse. If you believe the former then there is no point in us continuing the debate - because we believe in polar opposites.

 

The portraying of Savile will lead to a monumental own goal on our part. I have absolutely no doubt about that at all.

 

Sorry, but I am NOT condoning doing nothing about them. That is a little offensive to be honest. Just how much does the Rangers support do to expose paedophilia every day ? I would hazard a guess at very little. But because we go to Parkhead all of a sudden we are public champions of abuse ? I don't think that is the case. Even the OP made it abundantly clear that this was nothing more than a points-scoring exercise. Completely the wrong manner in which to attempt to expose it - and just waiting for the bomb to explode in our own faces.

 

How much have YOU done to expose the reprehensible Torbett ? I know I have done nothing personally but then I also don't think that a banner on Saturday is the appropriate way of going about it. Just what would a banner showing a picture of a child abuser resolve in terms of the abuse suffered by many children at the hands of Savile and Torbet ? You could argue that it would generate public exposure - which is fair enough. However, be very, very careful of the exposure it actually brings - for it is far more likely, given the current media situation, to be portrayed as us making fun of victims rather than the intended exposure that Celtic institutionally covered-up paedophilia (and, as I already said, I even doubt that the any such banner from our fans is earnestly meant to expose those cover-ups - much more likely, as I said, to be a point-scoring exercise).

 

You can find it appalling all you want Cal, as is your prerogative. Me, personally, think that you are being more than just a touch inventive with the ACTUAL intent of such banners being paraded on Saturday and the IMPLIED intent - the intent implied is that it is some noble cause demanding justice for such victims whilst the actual intent is points-scoring. If the actual intent was to demand justice for those victims where is the continual, exhaustive, public demand from Rangers fans groups that the cover-ups at Parkhead need to be exposed ? Exactly, there are none.

 

All of a sudden we become such noble-minded defenders of justice and those unable to protect themselves..... whenever we travel to Parkhead. We are essentially talking about 90 minute defenders of justice.

 

Also, don't accuse me of brushing ANYTHING under the carpet - that is clearly nonsense. The fact that I don't wish Rangers fans to parade a banner of a child abuser is absolutely NOT the same as brushing it under the carpet. In fact, I take it that I will see you at the next Rangers fans gathering to demand justice for Torbet's victims ? Exactly, neither of us will be there because there won't be any such meeting.

 

If you think that a banner of Savile is an attempt to expose the cover-ups then that is your prerogative. I just happen to disagree and believe that any such banner is virtually nothing to do with exposing any such cover-up or demanding justice for the victims - and is almost completely about point-scoring.

 

I think we are diametrically opposed on this issue - but not for the reason you state above.

 

In your haste to defend der Berliner's Penn State suggested banner as an alternative to one of Jimmy Savile you have ignored the fact that the OP clearly suggested it as a points-scoring exercise with absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to do with justice or exposure.

 

I can't subscribe to defending the indefensible. In this instance it is all about point-scoring - no matter how loud you should that this is about demanding justice for victims I would find it very surprising if you actually believed that.

 

But it is what it is. Looks like, once more, you and I agree to disagree Nothing wrong with that

[JFK-1 1,693]

 

The portraying of Savile will lead to a monumental own goal on our part. I have absolutely no doubt about that at all.

 

Totally agree then if we win the match the focus will be taken off the result exactly as the hibz bunch did within hours of their primitive Hampden rampage by raving on about songs which are apparently worse than assault and half a million pounds worth of vandalism.

 

Even the OP made it abundantly clear that this was nothing more than a points-scoring exercise

 

Again agree, this has nothing whatsover to do with any concerns about victims of paedophilia it's simply a vacuous attempt to take a swipe at the opposition. If that weren't the case the same people would/should be relentlessly campaigning across multiple platforms instead of doing absolutely until a football match?

 

The family and victims of Savile in particular would be mortified not impressed in any way and this would be about as big a foot in mouth episode as I can imagine possible on the day.

[pete 2,499]

Why Saville? What has he to do with Celtic? I am against doing anything of this sort but if anybody is going to do anything at least get a photo of Torbett and hit them with facts.

[ranger_syntax 4,321]

Please kill this thread.

[JFK-1 1,693]

Why Saville? What has he to do with Celtic? I am against doing anything of this sort but if anybody is going to do anything at least get a photo of Torbett and hit them with facts.

 

That's the point that completely exposes the pointless and damaging nature of it. Those who want to do this Savile thing didn't come up with the idea because they were so concerned about victims of paedophiles. At it's core it's nothing but an attempt at shock value.

 

You wave a banner with Torbett on it the vast majority of people aren't even going to know who it is but they know who Savile is. And as you say the vast majority would then be thinking what in the world are they doing? What in the world does this notorious paedophile have to do with this football match? Are they glorifying this animal?

 

It's guaranteed to bring nothing but bad press further afield than Scotland.

[Crimson Dynamo 128]

In response to the original poster as a Rangers fan I would be disgusted by our fans if we unveiled such a banner on Sunday. We would be massacred in the press and rightly so in my opinion.

 

Rangers fans are better than that.

[der Berliner 3,744]

All of a sudden we become such noble-minded defenders of justice and those unable to protect themselves..... whenever we travel to Parkhead. We are essentially talking about 90 minute defenders of justice.

 

What brought you to that line of thought? The notion that we pretend to be anything of the above? Did we ever do that, did anyone said so or actually intimated that with the Penn State or Saville stuff? If anything, we might show the Scum up for what they are. Bigotted hypocrites with a rather selective memory. No more, no less.

 

In your haste to defend der Berliner's Penn State suggested banner as an alternative to one of Jimmy Savile you have ignored the fact that the OP clearly suggested it as a points-scoring exercise with absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to do with justice or exposure.

 

I didn't feel defended by calscot's reply to you, thank you. But I still await your suggestion for a neat banner, point scoring or not. Just for the sake of the argument.

 

Meanwhile, a few others have argued what might be more appropriate in an age where we can do whatever we want and still get blamed. Someone mentioned that people shall stop singing certain songs, so the IRAoke and heinous stuff the Yahoos regularly air will be heard all over the planet. Honestly, that idea is a good one, yet, unless you know what they are singing, many foreigners (and even English native speakers) don't get much of the words or texts. Unless, of course, some impartial BT or Sky chap apologizes on air when certain songs are being sung ... songs supposedly "sectarian". And rest assured, the next camera image will be Rangers supporters in full voice ...

 

And THAT has been the case for the best part of a decade.

Edited September 7, 2016 by der Berliner

[JFK-1 1,693]

I would guess an international and even English audience would have no idea what a fenian is but they do know what IRA means.