Celtic face yet another UEFA rap as fans fly Palestine flags

[JFK-1 1,693]

But you can say exactly the same about the Zionist concept. If you seek to ethnically cleanse a people of their own land why be surprised if they want to sweep you away?

 

You aren't going to address what I just said?

 

And in addition come up with this "ethnic cleansing" thing? First why didn't you address what I said rather than trying to avoid it and going on to something that doesn't even make any sense to get off the topic?

 

And incidentally last I heard Israel have killed around 6,000 Palestinians in almost 70 years. That's ethnic cleansing? They must be the most incompetent ethnic cleansers in history since the annual birth rate all alone far exceeds what they have killed in 70 years. Jordan killed almost as many in a matter of weeks back in the 70's. Are they ethnic cleansers? If not why not?

 

Let me make a guess. You have absolutely nothing to support that ethnic cleansing thing. It's just a catch phrase you heard from some quarter or other and repeated it? I may be wrong but if so bring me the data don't just throw these catch phrases out after ignoring what I previously said which DOES have data to support it.

[der Berliner 3,744]

I'm sorry but in my opinion, Ladas were crap. Just because one of them lasted 10 years doesn't make it generally good, even if you liked it. I've driven a couple and they are crap to drive - exceptionally so, I've been in quite a few and they are crap to be in, I've seen a lot and they are crap to look at... They have crap performance, crap handling, crap equipment, and I'll bet they are crap in safety tests.

 

If you like it then hey, fine, good on you, but it doesn't make them good cars. Sorry. Maybe it's relative where they were better than a Trabant?

 

Anyway, I was just using it as an analogy and it's the worst car I can think of - we really can't use Skodas now, although they are ugly...

 

Ok, swap Lada for Reliant Robin...

 

I can just talk about the cars I know and the Trabant was okay too. As I pointed out: in that day and age. We have a Skoda just now and they are fine (methinks they have Porsche engines these days ... ). But let's not go too much off topic ;-)

[der Berliner 3,744]

Neighbours who have been there for 2000 years who are suddenly ethnically cleansed when a people who never had a country decide they want one of their own. Not my view but that of Isaac Asimov, science friction writer and Jew who refused to rejoice in 1948. Noam Chomsky calls Israel a 'terrorist state' and he is Jewish. Some folk on here need to avoid using terms like 'scum' when referring to Palestine and not applying them to Israel. But then our precious government supports the Zionist state and calls anyone who opposes it 'anti-semitic': dangerous, easy labelling which assumes that nation states are never in the wrong.

 

 

Methinks I was actually stating quite early on that the Romans actually had a province called Judea before 136 CE, which might have given you a clue about who was there at the time.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judea_(Roman_province)

 

It is probably the most stereotypical "hen and egg" story out there.

[StuGers 477]

So was there another 'protest' in Israel last night or was it all quiet and flagless?

[pete 2,499]

So was there another 'protest' in Israel last night or was it all quiet and flagless?

 

They are not man enough to protest at the bron.

[alexscottislegend 2,320]

You aren't going to address what I just said?

 

And in addition come up with this "ethnic cleansing" thing? First why didn't you address what I said rather than trying to avoid it and going on to something that doesn't even make any sense to get off the topic?

 

And incidentally last I heard Israel have killed around 6,000 Palestinians in almost 70 years. That's ethnic cleansing? They must be the most incompetent ethnic cleansers in history since the annual birth rate all alone far exceeds what they have killed in 70 years. Jordan killed almost as many in a matter of weeks back in the 70's. Are they ethnic cleansers? If not why not?

 

Let me make a guess. You have absolutely nothing to support that ethnic cleansing thing. It's just a catch phrase you heard from some quarter or other and repeated it? I may be wrong but if so bring me the data don't just throw these catch phrases out after ignoring what I previously said which DOES have data to support it.

 

I wasn't aware that it was a numbers game. If, as you claim, the ethnic cleansing wasn't very good (!) then how many deaths would it take to make it so? Don't think there were actually that many deaths in the Highland Clearances, numerically speaking, but if the term had been invented then, to me for one, that was an early example of the doctrine. Certainly, imperialism had the same aims then as in Israel. But, since you are so keen on data:

 

The Israeli human rights organisation B'Tselem have counted 565 Palestinians killed by Israeli security forces since January 2009 (that is, after the end of the Gaza massacre known as “Operation Cast Lead”, which cost 1,400 Palestinian and 13 Israeli lives), while 28 Israeli civilians and 10 Israeli security personnel have been killed over the same period. Again, these figures show who is the oppressed and who the oppressor.

The kidnapping and killing of three teenage settlers

What is being presented as a sequence of events leading to retaliatory measures on both sides has now erupted into a crisis, which could be getting out of control. The Israeli army is in the process of mobilising 40,000 reservists and Netanyahu is threatening to send the army into Gaza, although just a few thousands have been mobilised so far. If that were the case, the number of casualties would definitely exponentially increase on both sides. But whatever the Israeli government does, this has nothing to do with concerns for its own citizens' safety. To spill more Palestinian blood and even to restore a direct Israeli occupation of the Gaza Strip, as some are demanding, would simply increase the determination in a new generation of Arab youth to fight the occupation with all means possible.

The kidnapping and killing of three teenage settlers on June 12 by a rogue group in the West Bank allegedly close to Hamas ended the uneasy truce reached in 2012. This was simply the incident that was exploited to raise the level of tension. In other circumstances, this would have been seen as yet another tragic event in the decades-long conflict. This time, however, it was used as an excuse to launch a hysterical media campaign around the search for the kidnapped teenagers.

 

I prefer to defer to opinions of well-respected intellectual giants like Asimov and Chomsky who cannot be said to be anti-semitic.

Edited August 24, 2016 by alexscottislegend
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[der Berliner 3,744]

It is really hard for someone not from the region to acquire a level headed view on the matter, and it is probably even harder for those in the region. I doubt this thread is about taking sides though.

[JFK-1 1,693]

It's not about numbers it's about a mentality that has no intention of co-existence in any two state solution which makes it absurd to even raise it and even more absurd when phrases such as "ethnic cleansing" are bandied around in support of that mentality when that very mentality openly states in it's own charter an intention to commit genocide.

 

There is a simple solution, stop attacking Israel and there will be no retaliation. Stop electing terrorists groups who state in their charter that they will not stop until every last Jew on the planet is dead. Anybody think electing that was ever going to result in anything else but the current situation?

 

Does anybody anywhere think that electing that was ever going to result in any negotiated settlement? Bring the Israelis to the table and the first thing on the agenda is oh by the way vacate every last inch of your country then prepare to be killed where ever we may find you.

 

Any possible starting point is that Israel has a right to exist and exist in peace and that's never going to happen with an islamist terrorist group running the place and keep in mind an islamist terrorist group freely elected by the poor benighted population when there were more moderate alternatives.

 

As for raising so called 'intellectual giants' as a reason to support these terrorists I view that as a lack of independent thinking and a failure to personally examine and critique the situation. It doesn't take an intellectual giant to discern that negotiating with a group who have nothing in mind but genocide is irrational. A valid comparsion would be that they may as well have negotiated with the Nazis to organise a more efficient manner of getting them all dead and in the ovens.

 

The guy in this short clip is a respected intellectual and the harridan he is talking to is absolutely typical of the hamas/Palestinian mentality and in fact the mentality in the entire region and beyond yet there are still people who claim to be impartial supporting her and her like in part because some 'intellectual giant" does?

 

That I find disturbing. Especially when there are infinitely more 'intellectual giants' to choose from who would maintain the opposite view and I prefer to examine the easily acquired data myself and form my own opinion rather than have someone else give me an opinion.

 

Edited August 24, 2016 by JFK-1

[Bluedell 5,624]

Neighbours who have been there for 2000 years who are suddenly ethnically cleansed when a people who never had a country decide they want one of their own. Not my view but that of Isaac Asimov, science friction writer and Jew who refused to rejoice in 1948. Noam Chomsky calls Israel a 'terrorist state' and he is Jewish.

 

Just because someone is Jewish and holds an opposite view from the majority of Jews doesn't make their opinion any more valid.

 

Some folk on here need to avoid using terms like 'scum' when referring to Palestine and not applying them to Israel. But then our precious government supports the Zionist state and calls anyone who opposes it 'anti-semitic': dangerous, easy labelling which assumes that nation states are never in the wrong.

A fair point but it needs to be used carefully. I know someone (an RC Celtic supporter) who is ardently anti-Israel and makes the same point as you while linking to Hitler apologist sites and throwing in around 2-5% of the anti-Israel stuff which falls under the anti-Semitic umbrella.

 

I've noticed a rise in anti-Semitism in Scotland over the last few years, and a large chunk of it falling under the Nationalist camp.

 

I'm not getting involved in the whole Israel-Palestine debate as it's not something I feel qualified to argue on and also there seems to be faults on both sides, as is shown by the on-going debate in this thread.

[alexscottislegend 2,320]

Just because someone is Jewish and holds an opposite view from the majority of Jews doesn't make their opinion any more valid.

 

 

A fair point but it needs to be used carefully. I know someone (an RC Celtic supporter) who is ardently anti-Israel and makes the same point as you while linking to Hitler apologist sites and throwing in around 2-5% of the anti-Israel stuff which falls under the anti-Semitic umbrella.

 

I've noticed a rise in anti-Semitism in Scotland over the last few years, and a large chunk of it falling under the Nationalist camp.

 

That is truly worrying, not just in Scot but rUK too. It is linked to the economic crisis and is the response of those on the Right who seek simplistic views for the capitalist crisis. But remember anti-semitism is not analogous to anti-Zionism.