Dave King gives an update.

[Frankie 8,562]

I think last year the average season ticket price was in the region of £290. This year will be closer to £350 so you're talking around £15m season ticket income give or take a million. Retail and sponsorship monies will be next to negligible and people have to appreciate that gives us little room for manoeuvre when it comes to investment.

 

As it stands, the bulk of the season ticket income will be used to address existing staffing costs and essential overheads such as the stadium maintenance. I assume both of these substantial costs will have risen over the last year despite not all that much being spent in actual transfer fees.

 

Could King et al pony up some more? Yes, they could but we still have to pay off such soft loans at some point so how much debt (friendly or not) do we want to incur down the line? I'd argue we'd be better waiting until we qualify for a Europa or Champions League before we start thinking about more serious investment. Chucking a few million at a defender and/or a striker may make us all feel a bit better but it doesn't guarantee anything and imbalances our finances further.

 

All in all, people have to start appreciating just how tricky things still are financially. Yes, we can look towards a sugar daddy but I'd much rather our club was self-sustainable to avoid what happened under the last two or three supposed custodians with wealth off the radar. Being self-sustaining may not be as glamorous or gratifying but it's perhaps the only route forward as Scottish football goes down the swanny.

 

This isn't the 1990s any more. Wake up.

[cooponthewing 1,139]

I agree with a lot of what you say Frankie. My one main worry and will remain so is the CH position. You make a great case for watching the pennies and being carefull in the transfer market, however, the main concern for me is that if our centre half position is not addressed we will not qualify for Europe. Do I think there is a possibility with our defence we could end up 5th or 6th?. This may be unpopular opinion but yes it a very real possibility. If we don't qualify for Europe through a lack of investment in a CH then it will be another year wasted.

Our defence has more holes than the titanic and the CH position sends my blood pressure into orbit!! We will all be on some form of meditation by the end of the season at this rate:lol:

Edited August 9, 2016 by cooponthewing

[Frankie 8,562]

I agree with a lot of what you say Frankie. My one main worry and will remain so is the CH position. You make a great case for watching the pennies and being carefull in the transfer market, however, the main concern for me is that if our centre half position is not addressed we will not qualify for Europe. Do I think there is a possibility with our defence we could end up 5th or 6th?. This may be unpopular opinion but yes it a very real possibility. If we don't qualify for Europe through a lack of investment in a CH then it will be another year wasted.

Our defence has more holes than the titanic and the CH position sends my blood pressure into orbit!! We will all be on some form of meditation by the end of the season at this rate:lol:

 

Do we need another centre-half? Of course we do and clearly the club have being trying their best to bring one of suitable quality in.

 

The problem is the three than I'm aware of have all turned as down so we're now onto our fourth choice on the menu. That choice may be a more difficult one to make than the first one and/or we may have to wait for them to arrive (e.g. loan from an EPL squad).

 

It's actually quite a tricky situation. IMHO, I think Wilson and Kiernan are both imperfect but capable of improvement so I'd like to stick by them. But, at the same time, I do worry about our defence costing us important points so my patience is limited.

[pete 2,499]

I think last year the average season ticket price was in the region of £290. This year will be closer to £350 so you're talking around £15m season ticket income give or take a million. Retail and sponsorship monies will be next to negligible and people have to appreciate that gives us little room for manoeuvre when it comes to investment.

 

As it stands, the bulk of the season ticket income will be used to address existing staffing costs and essential overheads such as the stadium maintenance. I assume both of these substantial costs will have risen over the last year despite not all that much being spent in actual transfer fees.

 

Could King et al pony up some more? Yes, they could but we still have to pay off such soft loans at some point so how much debt (friendly or not) do we want to incur down the line? I'd argue we'd be better waiting until we qualify for a Europa or Champions League before we start thinking about more serious investment. Chucking a few million at a defender and/or a striker may make us all feel a bit better but it doesn't guarantee anything and imbalances our finances further.

 

All in all, people have to start appreciating just how tricky things still are financially. Yes, we can look towards a sugar daddy but I'd much rather our club was self-sustainable to avoid what happened under the last two or three supposed custodians with wealth off the radar. Being self-sustaining may not be as glamorous or gratifying but it's perhaps the only route forward as Scottish football goes down the swanny.

 

This isn't the 1990s any more. Wake up.

 

Frankie I totally agree and it is not so much wanting us going into the red but just that King stops trying to bullshit us all the time. We all know the club situation and accept it it is difficult. Getting to Europe is a must for us to get more income and I really feel without investment in a central defender we will be shooting ourselves in the foot. If we were to go back to Warburton's original plan and buy\sign a player with a sell-on instead of burnt-out car wrecks then that investment could be paid back far quicker. Barton, Hill and Kranjcar are eating large wages and have totally no sell-on value. Yes we need experience but on Saturdays starting line-up we had 4 players over or in the region of 34. We seem to be going in the opposite direction from young hungry players and in risk of toppling the cart in the other direction.

 

I obviously got the season ticket money totally wrong and stand corrected although it certainly opened some discussion.

[cooponthewing 1,139]

I don't share your confidence in our two centre halfs mate:lol: to say they make me uneasy at this level is an understatement. It's a fair and balanced point re they should be given a chance, like anyone should, I appreciate there is a lot of hysteria(including myself lol) around the CH position, imo it's not without foundation.

As you say, if we are not able to attract suitable targets for one reason or another, then it's not for want of trying. I hope you are correct and they improve, becoming confident and competent premiership CHs, I would like nothing more than to be wrong on this one.

[Frankie 8,562]

Frankie I totally agree and it is not so much wanting us going into the red but just that King stops trying to bullshit us all the time. We all know the club situation and accept it it is difficult. Getting to Europe is a must for us to get more income and I really feel without investment in a central defender we will be shooting ourselves in the foot. If we were to go back to Warburton's original plan and buy\sign a player with a sell-on instead of burnt-out car wrecks then that investment could be paid back far quicker. Barton, Hill and Kranjcar are eating large wages and have totally no sell-on value. Yes we need experience but on Saturdays starting line-up we had 4 players over or in the region of 34. We seem to be going in the opposite direction from young hungry players and in risk of toppling the cart in the other direction.

 

I obviously got the season ticket money totally wrong and stand corrected although it certainly opened some discussion.

 

I think there's a difference between bullsh!t and positivity. King occasionally lets his mouth run away with itself but I'd contend he's accurate/honest more than most so it's up to us to be critical where correct. I can't remember King's exact words about £30m investment and front-loading such but they were made before even he was probably completely aware of the basket case in front of him so we need to understand that whilst his investment may not be as high as first thought, it will come eventually. And, if not, instead of moaning about it, we need to take control ourselves via the models being put in place. Only then we may be appreciative enough of the balancing act required in controlling an Old Firm club and managing fan expectations/ambitions.

 

In terms of the playing squad, not every player can be a Rossiter or Dodoo. Yes, we want value but for these players to develop you need quality and experience alongside them. Barton, Hill, Kranjcar and Miller provide that and although I'd agree all four should not be in the same team (and won't be going forward) their presence in the squad does represent value.

 

Guys like Fod, Tav, Kiernan, Halliday and McKay are all young, hungry players but they're still raw. Again, a balancing act between youth and experience is required and we need to apply common sense.

 

I think too many Rangers fans have been spoilt with success over the last 30 years or so. We think of it as inevitable or some sort of birth right. Nothing could be further from the truth.

[Frankie 8,562]

I don't share your confidence in our two centre halfs mate:lol: to say they make me uneasy at this level is an understatement. It's a fair and balanced point re they should be given a chance, like anyone should, I appreciate there is a lot of hysteria(including myself lol) around the CH position, imo it's not without foundation.

As you say, if we are not able to attract suitable targets for one reason or another, then it's not for want of trying. I hope you are correct and they improve, becoming confident and competent premiership CHs, I would like nothing more than to be wrong on this one.

 

For every bad game these lads have they've had good ones. It's just a case of developing them to try and ensure the good outweighs the bad more and more going forward.

 

Can we afford that development time? Maybe not if we genuinely want to win the league this season...

 

Can we afford to buy a replacement? Maybe not if we're being entirely honest with our financial position also...

 

Either strategy requires patience and that's something our fans are going to have to appreciate going forward.

[cooponthewing 1,139]

I agree patience is something that we are not familiar with having to possess, and concur that it's a virtue we must try to educate ourselves with. I'm in total agreement there. Do we feel it's our birthright to be challenging and winning trophys every year?. I do, and imo we should. That may sound narcissistic(OK, it is:laugh:) my question would be this, if I were to pick any number of clubs who are the largest and most successful in there respective countries, would their supporters/fans feel the same?

 

The answer without question is "yes" Man Utd/Chelsea , AC/Inter Milan, Barcelona/Real Madrid, Bayern Munich and PSG to name but a few. Yes, I know the argument is they have hundreds of millions, however many of there rivals are not short for cash either so these clubs stay one step ahead, and any manager who takes the role at those clubs is aware of this, second is not an option as the fans all feel it is their Birthright(rightly or wrongly) to achieve success on a yearly basis. Be it in a cup competition or the domestic league. In all honesty for most of not all of those I mention if the league is not won, the manager knows his time is up.

 

Again I am not suggesting our financial position put us in their bracket, what I am suggesting is that as Rangers fans we have every right to demand success on a yearly basis. Objectively there are two huge clubs in Scotland, we are one of them, it's not, and imho, will never be in our dna to be patient. We crave success every season, failure is not an option and second is not acceptable. The only goal year in year out is trophys and championships. We may not achieve this, I accept that, but as Rangers fans we should never accept anything less than our pursuit of success. No matter how hard the fall may be from time to time.

[calscot 0]

I'm not sure I'd blame the defence too much for the dropped points in the last game. I think losing an average of one goal a game is a reasonable number and so passable for the defence if they achieve no more than one. However, that means the attack needs to score at least 2 goals a game, and that's where we didn't meet the bar.

 

However, the defence has never really looked solid under Warburton, and I think perhaps a good part of that is down to the pressure they are under due to the system we play - but it still means we need players who are capable of playing in that system. All systems tend to need high quality in certain key players to work - for Walter's wing back system, the quality was needed in the wing backs and that's where we often had the likes of Clelland and Bollan...

 

I think our system requires a lot: very high quality and mobility in the centre backs, a very decent holding midfielder, and a centre forward who has a high conversion rate. We may have one out of four in the midfield (and cover there too), but we're lacking in the other two areas.

 

But then the problem is that we need high quality, niche players who are high in demand, but we don't have much money to spend, and an unattractive league. All we have is a certain level of wage and the Rangers factor to attract players.

 

The Rangers factor is something a player has to get and includes a lot of things - first class facilities, an amazing, huge stadium full of a massive number of passionate supporters, the pleasure of winning the majority of games and a good chance of winning trophies with their medals, as well as a great chance of experiencing playing in Europe (these days for players who might otherwise not do so if they otherwise choose lower Premiership or any Championship side).

 

Although it also comes with some negative with the Scottish football goldfish bowl, the inexplicable antipathy towards us, the sectarian issues and our recent history and its accompanying residual problems, as well as the generally negative Scottish football factor.

 

So I'm thinking perhaps the reason we haven't filled those roles is not a lack of trying or willingness to stump up a certain amount of money; I think the quality and attributes of the players we need are so hard to secure, that we might just be struggling to get them in, and have the realisation that compromising in quality just to get someone, anyone in, is not an option due to the whole crucial nature of the positions. It wouldn't make any sense.

 

The problem might be more easily solved if we spent £5m on each player and put them on 40k a week wages, but that's just not sound business sense at the moment. The problem is that we don't even have the means to bring in the likes of a Cuellar and a Jelavic who were complete bargains. Maybe in a couple of years...

[der Berliner 3,744]

... Again I am not suggesting our financial position put us in their bracket, what I am suggesting is that as Rangers fans we have every right to demand success on a yearly basis.

 

Not disregarding the rest of your post, but the above is the important thing:

 

It seems - for some reason that I can't fathom - that people have a tendency to forget that we actually have an entire season still ahead of us. And we see that "blocking out" phenomenon again and again and again.

 

We have seen far better Rangers teams start season rather woefully and still win the double if not more. But after a disappointing result vs Hamilton (where we might have buried them had we taken our chances) it appears that people can't see beyond a gloom and doom picture and calmly forecast that the season is all but done.

 

I mean, folks, you are all around for years if not decades and still all that experience seems to go out of the window of late. Has "anxiety of failure" taken such a grip on people's minds? It is far from good and much needs to be done, but that has always been the case and under far better circumstances. Teams of both side of the Clyde have been 10 to 15 points behind at various stages in the titles race and still managed to come back and claim silver. Why not let us get into full swing before making up an opinion on how our first year back in the Premiership will transpire?

Edited August 9, 2016 by der Berliner