MW - I hope to get something done before next Saturday. We are working on it

[Ser Barristan Selmy 222]

I always remember the quote when MW signed , from a Brentford fans forum , " you will love his style of play going forwards , but his defence will give you nightmares "

 

Talk about impatience .

I don't follow the logic here. If our defence is just him reverting to type, what does patience have to do with anything? If we can't defend over a year into his tenure, I question whether that will ever change, particularly given he has a track record for this.

 

If Warburton doesn't find a way to sort his nightmarish defences, he will never get anywhere in Europe. If we think Celtic's European results are funny, we will likely be in for a real shock.

 

His style of play going forward is wonderful compared to what we're used to, but it's of little value if we can't defend. One is just as important as the other. Otherwise we would have teams winning the Champions League with crap defenders and playing 5 up front.

Edited August 2, 2016 by Ser Barristan Selmy

[rbr 1,256]

We are 1 year into a project , as we grow back to where we were financially, the players we recruit will get better , instead of free transfers and championship players I would expect us to but decent players, that's what I meant by impatience

 

 

[der Berliner 3,744]

Cant understand why limeburner is getting so much flak for stating the obvious.

 

The CH position has always been suspect and for all the relative points rbr makes above - surely when it came to allocating the few funds we had for new faces CH should have been the priority.

 

Don't think he got "FLAK" for stating the obvious, but the way he reacted to other opinions on his opinion.

[SteveC 150]

I don't follow the logic here. If our defence is just him reverting to type, what does patience have to do with anything? If we can't defend over a year into his tenure, I question whether that will ever change, particularly given he has a track record for this.

 

If Warburton doesn't find a way to sort his nightmarish defences, he will never get anywhere in Europe. If we think Celtic's European results are funny, we will likely be in for a real shock.

 

His style of play going forward is wonderful compared to what we're used to, but it's of little value if we can't defend. One is just as important as the other. Otherwise we would have teams winning the Champions League with crap defenders and playing 5 up front.

 

The logic as I read it is that this is what we were told (and we were, repeatedly) would happen so why act surprised/expect anything different. MW keeps saying there is no plan B. In Scotland we should whack most teams though I suspect we'll get some nasty shocks here and there as anyone who gives it a go is likely to score and we won't outscore all of them always, even minnows. As for the good-in-Scottish-terms teams then we may well ship quite a few goals in some of those games (even when we were completely outplaying the poorest scum team in years, they thankfully contrived to miss an open goal) and would probably often need a deadly strike-force to outscore them. As for Europe, well that'd be just as you state above. That's not something we have to worry about yet and however painful it is not to be there, it may be a blessing in disguise.

 

The 'logic' is to expect what MW has always given and has said he always will give and enjoy it for what it is, I suspect anyway - apologies if I have interpreted wrongly.

[SteveC 150]

I can understand us not being able to get first rate, or even second rate, players in - as fans we are reflexively guilty of doing a Jim Morrison and wanting the world and wanting it now, but Warburton is still very much operating with at least one hand tied behind his back financially.

 

Even so, it's hard to believe there isn't at least one defender better than Wilson or Kiernan available somewhere, and what really amazes me is that out of nearly 40 pro or semi pro clubs in Scotland there isn't a single CB prospect worth taking a punt on. If you grew up watching Miller & McLeish keep Hansen out the Scotland side, or the 9IAR players like Gough, McPherson, McLaren, down to Colin Hendry, this is just incredible and a damning indictment on the game.

 

I was a defender in my younger days for the very good reason that it's not the hardest job in a team to master - somewhere along the line the coaching has just collapsed.

 

I don't know what age you are, good sir, but is it also possible that changes in the laws have had an effect. I played on the wing and the full back's job was to put me out the game anyway he could. Nowadays defenders are hardly allowed near the player they are "marking" (or not as it is no longer allowed). I sometimes watch a last defender being made to look stupid and then when I watch the replay I realise that he didn't do anything constructive because he'd have given away a penalty/risked a red card if he had tried any of the ways that used to be routine defending approaches.

 

I'm often not sure what defenders who cannot read the game like a Beckenbauer are actually supposed to do much of the time, in other words.

Edited August 2, 2016 by SteveC

[MacK1950 2,376]

I like what you say regarding past,what was once a game where hard fair tackles were made has now been sanitised mainly by imports from overseas who when touched in a tackle seem mortally wounded.

Should be stamped out and referees should waken up to these things.

[Germinal 27]

I'm 45 and haven't kicked a ball in nigh on 15 years but I never played dirty anyway, I preferred Jardine to Stevens.

 

If you're fast enough to mark your man, wiry enough to deal with shoulder to shoulder stuff, and good enough at timing a tackle you're 50% there. Get someone competent to teach you about positioning and really that's it, then and now. Plainly the better you are at these basics the better the player you will be but every single professional should be able to do achieve a reasonable standard, & our defenders just flat don't, Wallace excepted.

[the gunslinger 3,366]

Lillian thuram went years in italy with no yellow cards. They asked him it about it once and he said. I'm faster than them why would I have to foul them.

[Scott7 6,004]

Eric Caldow the same.

[SteveC 150]

Yes, you are all correct re speed and I would add positional sense. A friend was commentating on a game last year with Trevor Steven.... in the India Premier League I think it was...as his co-commentator and Trevor's man of the first half never touched the ball in the whole half (I'm not making this up, honest) - but his covering movement meant that no attacks came down the flank he was on. I implied I only meant brutality and fouling but I didn't just mean that. I meant good, firm tackles, like the slide tackles I used to love avoiding. Hurdling was part of my game! However, when cleaned out by one without being fouled one could admire the defender's timing.

 

I also meant run of the mill defenders not world class like Caldow and Thuram (my Beckenbaur comment was meant to make that point.....)

Edited August 2, 2016 by SteveC