Sebo

[Gazza_8 233]

Thats 2 players in how long?

 

In the case of Larsson he started poorly for septic, the way Rangers fans are dismissing players just now, he wouldnt have even been given a chance.

 

another thing, who detrermines what games are "big games" and what goals are "important goals" ?

 

We have taken as many points off Septic as they have taken off us this season so it is our games against the "smaller teams" that have left us trailing them by 16 points, so surely every game is an "important game" when you are a Rangers player.

 

It doesn't matter howmany players we've mentioned, the point is that they are out there to be found. I remember Larssons debut against Hibs, he gave the ball away and they scored. I can't remember any other fuck ups during his career at Celtic.

 

Big games are the ones against Celtic, CL games and UEFA Cup games. How many times has Boyd scored against Celtic in his career?

[R.B. 0]

Am I right in saying Boyd's never scored against Celtic in his career?

 

And he hasn't exactly lit Europe alight.

 

All well and good scoring 30 a season against the Dunfermline's of this world..

 

Its the games against the Dunfermlines, Dundee Utds, ICTs of this world that have left us so far behind them.

 

How many attempts has he really had at Europe?

[ascender 352]

None of that excuses the fact that he is lazy, can't trap a bag of cement, can't get involved in link up play, can't hold the ball up.....

 

Cammy F

 

No it doesn't although I think its a bit harsh to criticise his link-up play as he's done OK in my eyes when playing as part of a front two. In games where he's been joined up front by someone like Novo, they have linked and played off each other.

 

The guy needs work & maybe with McCoist on the coaching staff he'll improve. Maybe with better players around him he'll improve. Maybe with a settled formation he'll improve. Who knows. But at the moment, despite lacking all of those qualities, he's still scoring a shed load of goals which have proved vital to us.

 

What's the answer then? If we sell him just now, we don't appear to have anyone who can weigh in with even half the goals he seems to score. Where does that leave us?

 

Part of the problem is that no-one else in the team, midfielders especially, are scoring regularly. Without that, we don't have the luxury of trying a new partnership of players and giving them time to bed in. But even with that time, I don't think we have the players anyway. Prso is on his last legs. Novo isn't composed enough. That leaves Sebo. So why not play Boyd and Sebo up front and actually give them to get a partnership going?

[CammyF 8,017]

No it doesn't although I think its a bit harsh to criticise his link-up play as he's done OK in my eyes when playing as part of a front two. In games where he's been joined up front by someone like Novo, they have linked and played off each other.

 

The guy needs work & maybe with McCoist on the coaching staff he'll improve. Maybe with better players around him he'll improve. Maybe with a settled formation he'll improve. Who knows. But at the moment, despite lacking all of those qualities, he's still scoring a shed load of goals which have proved vital to us.

 

What's the answer then? If we sell him just now, we don't appear to have anyone who can weigh in with even half the goals he seems to score. Where does that leave us?

 

Part of the problem is that no-one else in the team, midfielders especially, are scoring regularly. Without that, we don't have the luxury of trying a new partnership of players and giving them time to bed in. But even with that time, I don't think we have the players anyway. Prso is on his last legs. Novo isn't composed enough. That leaves Sebo. So why not play Boyd and Sebo up front and actually give them to get a partnership going?

 

The team that are currently running away with the SPL don't have a player who is anywhere near Boyd in the scoring charts.

 

The last twice we won the league, we didn't have a player who was anywhere near Boyd in the scoring charts.

 

What we need in a front player is a player who can lead the line, who can hold the ball up, who can bring in players from midfield, who is very mobile, fast, skillfull etc. That just isn't Boyd and I'm sorry, but he hasn't improved all of the above under 3 managers, so I don't think he has that in his locker.

 

Yes, maybe with another striker around him, he would improve, but should a manager adapt his formation around a player who lacks the basic footballing skills?

 

Cammy F

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But what me and Cammy are saying is that if you look hard enough you'll find players who we can sign for a small fee who will score for us and generally bring more to the team than Boyd does.

 

I don't dispute that, but you both seem to be making out that this is a fairly easy thing to happen and that the reason we haven't done so is because the management team are happy with Boyd. How many years did we have to wait for someone to come along who would regularly score as many goals as Boyd has been doing? Did anyone come close apart from Novo in his first year here?

 

I can't think of many players since McCoist retired who look capable of giving us a guaranteed haul of goals every year.

 

We'd all love for Rangers to unearth a new player who would be better than Boyd on all fronts, but how many years could we wait for that to happen? Do we just sell Boyd and hope we can replace him with someone better? That's a pretty big risk considering what he does bring to the table.

[R.B. 0]

It doesn't matter howmany players we've mentioned, the point is that they are out there to be found. I remember Larssons debut against Hibs, he gave the ball away and they scored. I can't remember any other fuck ups during his career at Celtic.

 

Big games are the ones against Celtic, CL games and UEFA Cup games. How many times has Boyd scored against Celtic in his career?

 

Theres no point in me answering questions you allready know the answer to.

 

Celtic games alone wont decide if we win the league or not and at the risk of repeating myself he has only played 8 European games, ok hes only got 2 goals but IMO he can and will improve with the more European games he plays.

[CammyF 8,017]

Theres no point in me answering questions you allready know the answer to.

 

Celtic games alone wont decide if we win the league or not and at the risk of repeating myself he has only played a maximum of 9 European games, i think its less, ok hes only got 2 goals but IMO he can and will improve with the more European games he plays.

 

It isn't the fact that he hasn't scored against Craptic nor enough in Europe, it is his alround performances. He just doesn't look like scoring in those games and doesn't do enough for the team.

 

He can not hold the ball up. He is as slow as me. He can't control the ball. He can't bring in players around him. He is cumbersome. He is lazy. He doesn't win enough in the air. He is easily nulified.

 

Cammy F

[ascender 352]

The team that are currently running away with the SPL don't have a player who is anywhere near Boyd in the scoring charts.

 

The last twice we won the league, we didn't have a player who was anywhere near Boyd in the scoring charts.

 

What we need in a front player is a player who can lead the line, who can hold the ball up, who can bring in players from midfield, who is very mobile, fast, skillfull etc. That just isn't Boyd and I'm sorry, but he hasn't improved all of the above under 3 managers, so I don't think he has that in his locker.

 

Yes, maybe with another striker around him, he would improve, but should a manager adapt his formation around a player who lacks the basic footballing skills?

 

Cammy F

 

That's true, but I bet if you look around any of the leagues in the world, any club challenging for honours would be a lot more confident about finishing highly if they had someone who could guarantee them 20+ goals a season for starters.

 

The last twice we won the league we had other players weighing in with goals on a regular basis though. Think what the winning margins could have been if you'd added in a Boyd type of player too.

 

I think there's a place in the team for Boyd if you play him right up front as an out and out striker, but its pointless unless you have someone else playing alongside him or behind him with other qualities.

 

PLG didn't rate Boyd, but quickly found out that if you dropped him, we struggled to score goals. I don't remember him changing the formation just to accommodate him though.

 

I've never said Boyd is the be all and end all. I'd love if we had better strikers to select than him, but we don't. That's the bottom line just now. Not one other player in our squad looks capable of scoring regularly in the SPL, let alone the so-called big games in Europe. What can we do just now?

 

Could we afford to sell him? Where would we be in the league if you took his goals out of the equation? I'm guessing it would be much further down than second place.

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It isn't the fact that he hasn't scored against Craptic nor enough in Europe, it is his alround performances. He just doesn't look like scoring in those games and doesn't do enough for the team.

 

He can not hold the ball up. He is as slow as me. He can't control the ball. He can't bring in players around him. He is cumbersome. He is lazy. He doesn't win enough in the air. He is easily nulified.

 

Cammy F

 

So how can he be easily nullified if he's still topping the SPL scoring charts?

 

Looking at our strikers just now, at least Boyd scores goals. Prso, Novo and Sebo each have different qualities, but none of them are even close to the finished article, the sort of all round striker you're wanting Boyd to be.

 

Our forward line has been pretty impotent for years and we've often looked clueless in the final third of the pitch. That's a massive problem for us and WS needs to sort it out this summer.

[R.B. 0]

Yep, i dont disagree with any of what you are saying there cammy and i would love a player who can hold the ball up, has pace, has a great first touch, can bring others into the game, works hard and is great in the air but im pretty sure i would play him alongside Kris Boyd who can add the one element missing and can score goals as well.

 

I dont think its possible to get a player especially on our budget and in our league who can do all of the above playing up front on his own.

 

IMO Boyd should play until we have that better option and we shouldnt even consider "punting" him until we are sure we wont miss his goals.