the gunslinger 3,366 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 I can agree with the 1st 3 lines of your statement. But I'm not having that McCoist was worse than John Barnes - I dislike the way we throw such superlatives out because there more than likely are managers worse than McCoist was, particularly when you look at global football. Even with regards to the Club's history it is tough to know if he was the worst - he did have some pretty incredible extenuating circumstances which none of our managers have had to suffer. I am by no means trying to defend the poor standard of football under his reign but you do have to consider everything that the Club had to go through. There is certainly, though, enough to look at and have Ally close to the top of the "worst Rangers managers" pile. Ally was the first rangers manager in history to have the huge advantage of being the biggest spender by a factor of ten at least and a hundred more often than not. He had some huge advantages and still failed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Calscot's point, which is fair, is that when Ally resigned we were still in 2nd place. Much of the seasons malaise CAN be placed upon Ally (along with the carnage that was our Board at the time) but he wasn't completely responsible for us finishing 3rd. Eh, conjecture? Huge conjecture. Two subsequent managers bombed after McCoist. Many people here wrapped up in the memes predicted success after McCoist due to a complete misunderstanding of the situation. When he left we were in 2nd place. Where we would have ended up had he stayed would be nothing but conjecture. Just as it's conjecture to say we wouldn't have won the league. But just as unlikely as third place. We have enough information to surmise the most likely outcome would have been second place - without the arrival of Llambias, which I think was the main catalyst. I didn't see you kicking in the "conjecture" argument for some of the more extreme posts of that style on here... Strange. The one thing we all can agree on, I think, is that the standard of football Ally had us playing was mind-blowingly bad. Again, you're following the memes which massively exaggerate that, just as they massively exagerate the entertainment of our current style. I much prefer our current style but it has plenty of flaws. McCoist's wasn't good, but was in the context of our situation at the time. I don't think he's a good manager, or a progressive one, but that doesn't mean I enjoy the very strange demonising of him. I prefer things to agree with reality. Like I say, if he's so bad, there is no need to fabricate anything. When you put MW though the same distorted glasses, he looks pretty shit too. He's repeated (or near enough) many failures that McCoist was slaughtered for and his win record is hardly better no matter how much you try to manipulate it. I have no problem with people thinking McCoist was shit but when people make up fiction, I'm inclined to point it out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Ally was the first rangers manager in history to have the huge advantage of being the biggest spender by a factor of ten at least and a hundred more often than not. He had some huge advantages and still failed. When did he fail? The times you are talking about he comfortably won the league - on one occasion without losing a game. His budget for the championship was zero and he had to take what was available, MW had money to spend, the wages were in a similar ball park. Warburton would have probably failed to win the league two seasons ago too. Hearts were way ahead in games against the same teams, discounting the games between us. And all that without taking into account the board and the fan boycott. MW has done nothing yet. I actually find him a bit of disappointment so far results-wise as they are no better than Ally's and worse than Hearts who had a harder league and far less money. I was impressed with his draw and penalty win against Celtic, although it has to be said they were under so much pressure they were there for the taking. The loss against Hibs, as you are pointing out, was a horrendous failure which badly impacts our next couple of seasons. That was against a team with far less resources. The St Johnstone failure was pretty poor too - a team Ally defeated the previous season. BUT I like him. Because I don't demonise a manager because a few failures and because he's not much better than a much maligned manager in results. I look at the bigger picture and I think we may have a chance of good progression, something I didn't foresee under Ally - but then we never were able to see him under a board who had more than their own short term interests at heart. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
limeburner 0 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 When Gers fans on this site are being accused of not being Gers fans and the moderators are sitting idily by doing nothing about it,then questions need to be asked. Its not good enough,end of story.This is just another site if that is allowed to go unchecked.That would be sad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gunslinger 3,366 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 He failed in every aspect of the job. He won by spending millions we didn't have. He didn't deliver quality football. Cup runs. Player development. Fan enthusiasm. We were torture under him. Anyone arguing for him on bland stats is insulting those who watched us. Tell me 3 things ally did well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
limeburner 0 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 He failed in every aspect of the job. He won by spending millions we didn't have. He didn't deliver quality football. Cup runs. Player development. Fan enthusiasm. We were torture under him. Anyone arguing for him on bland stats is insulting those who watched us. Tell me 3 things ally did well. He resigned,he has not been back,he did not recommend a successor!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 I'd have Barnes in a heartbeat over ally again. I'd have neither. And I'm not so sure I would have Barnes over Ally either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 Eh, conjecture? Huge conjecture. Two subsequent managers bombed after McCoist. Many people here wrapped up in the memes predicted success after McCoist due to a complete misunderstanding of the situation. Not even sure how your response relates to the piece of my post that you are quoting here. Much of the failures of that season can be placed upon McCoist, that much is beyond doubt. Similarly, much of the issues can be placed with the Board too, no argument from me there. What is it with all this "memes" nonsense ? Just as it's conjecture to say we wouldn't have won the league. But just as unlikely as third place. We have enough information to surmise the most likely outcome would have been second place - without the arrival of Llambias, which I think was the main catalyst. I didn't see you kicking in the "conjecture" argument for some of the more extreme posts of that style on here... Strange. At the point in time that Ally resigned we were so far behind that we would only have won the league had we went on an extended winning run coupled with a collapse by Hearts that would probably have been unprecedented. But, yes, it would be conjecture for any of us to suggest where we would have ended up had he stayed. That much is clear. I disagree about being as likely to win the league as finishing 3rd - but neither really matters that much. We can surmise all we like, it is still conjecture. Again, you're following the memes which massively exaggerate that, just as they massively exagerate the entertainment of our current style. I much prefer our current style but it has plenty of flaws. McCoist's wasn't good, but was in the context of our situation at the time. I don't think he's a good manager, or a progressive one, but that doesn't mean I enjoy the very strange demonising of him. I prefer things to agree with reality. On this point I completely disagree. You will NEVER, EVER convince me that the brand of football on display from McCoist's team in that last season was anything better than awful. I witnessed it with my own eyes and I don't need your perspective to force-feed me the notion that how poorly we played that season was exaggerated. I bought an online season ticket which cost me US$300 - and after a dozen games or so I got to the point where I didn't give a crap whether I got to see the game live or not - nothing to do with results, but all about watching the most dire of footballing styles I have witnessed in many a long year. Compare and contrast to this past season - whereby I bought the Puffin browser for iPhone just so I could see every game live on my iPhone if I wasn't in the house. So you can suggest the poor football was exaggerated - but for me, it was very, very real. What I witnessed was turgid. If you believe we played decent football in Ally's last season then fair enough to you - we clearly have different expectations. And if that IS your belief then we will just have to agree to disagree, because I cannot be convinced it was anything other than dross. Like I say, if he's so bad, there is no need to fabricate anything. When you put MW though the same distorted glasses, he looks pretty shit too. He's repeated (or near enough) many failures that McCoist was slaughtered for and his win record is hardly better no matter how much you try to manipulate it. What exactly am I fabricating ? I have said nothing about results, and I even acknowledged that when Ally resigned we were in 2nd place. I'm not fabricating anything. I have no problem with people thinking McCoist was shit but when people make up fiction, I'm inclined to point it out. I have no problem with people thinking Ally was a decent manager - doesn't mean it is factual - and I am inclined to point it out when what they witness is very different from what I witnessed. The football we played under Ally was putrid. I find this post amusing actually Cal - because I was agreeing with much of what you had previously said. I'm still confused as to the tone towards me but that's fine, wont be the first or last time Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
limeburner 0 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 He wants to argue and dominate EVERYBODY,dont you see.? Hunt him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
limeburner 0 Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 No reply for a while,the "memes"must be on holiday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts