craig 5,199 Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 It is very easy to pontificate the reason to not buy the tops because Ashley has his grubby hands on the merchandising deal. It is also very easy to do that when you don't have any kids and have no vested nor emotional interest in it. Not pointing fingers cal. However, I started buying my kid one Rangers top a season since his birth and, from probably his 2nd birthday I had it in my mind that I would buy one each year with his age on it, get them framed and then present them to him on his 18th birthday. So whilst you are right, it isn't that important, it was a choice that I made long before Charles Green or Mike Ashley darkened the club's door. One aspect that you seem to be missing or overlooking here is thus : Why should any Bear have to change plans which they have had in place for years and long before the likes of Ashley came along, just because Ashley and Charles Green f*cked the Club over ? I have had a laugh and joke in person with Ian and Frankie about this - but I am sure there are many like me who had the same plans for their kids - we weren't the ones to screw the Club over, yet would be the ones (ALL of us) having to take a stance on something that should never have impacted us. No disrespect to Lion Brand as their stuff looks to be excellent quality - but my intent was always to have a match jersey for each year from his birth to his 18th - I also wasn't anticipating having to explain that from his 8th birthday to his 11th birthday that we wouldn't be challenging for the Premier league title NONE of us want to give Ashley a penny - but it is a dilemma for those who have had plans laid for many a year. Hard to believe that some were happy to have Ashley involved at the Club 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 I would never suggest to any bear or anyone for that matter, how to or not to spend their money. As everyone knows I sit in family sect so will buy my neice the top, probably one of the away tops. I'm not going to explain to an eight year old the complexities of the fat man's quagmire empire. Moreover I certainly won't impress my feelings on anyone else, it's personal choice. I know the boycott is there and understand why, however you can't start berating bears for buying merchandise if they wish, with their own hard earned money. It's not the Miners strike Ffs! Who's berating whom? You don't think everyone is entitled to express an opinion? Can I point out that when you are doing something that is potentially harmful to something or someone, it's no longer just a personal matter. This affects a club people love and you seem to be implying that it's OK for you to tell them what to do... 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooponthewing 1,139 Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Calscot, nothing personal and maybe you need to read my post again, I'm not telling anyone what to do, that was the whole point of the post. Of course I'm aware we all express opinions, that's why I'm expressing mine. Tbh I wasn't pointing to anyone in particular, there are a lot of bears, who, as is their right, share your opinion, I however don't. We are an institution that is part of so many people's life and means so much to so many. If you want to go down your line of doing things that are harmful etc try being a kid who is told they can't have their idols strip because of the fat man. That's not something I want to do as I always take my neice to the games. Anyway, I go back to a personal choice, that was my only point. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 (edited) It is very easy to pontificate the reason to not buy the tops because Ashley has his grubby hands on the merchandising deal. "Pontificate", come on, really? Can you not show some open mindedness to an alternate point of view, even if you ultimately disagree with it? It is also very easy to do that when you don't have any kids and have no vested nor emotional interest in it. Not pointing fingers cal. However, I started buying my kid one Rangers top a season since his birth and, from probably his 2nd birthday I had it in my mind that I would buy one each year with his age on it, get them framed and then present them to him on his 18th birthday. Like I said, I do believe it's everyone choice but to me they should be fully aware of the choice they are making and why. If you are finally comfortable with the choice, then you should be comfortable with other point of view. I already showed that I get that people are compelled to sets and series and we do all sorts of things for our own reasons. I get that what you are doing sounds like a fun project and nice to do, but when you tell me I wouldn't understand, because I don't have kids about, emotional interests and family vested interests, then I'm really losing you, I'm not a lonely hermit on a desert island. To use it to say that I wouldn't understand without kids, why emotional interest means you HAVE to buy him a new football strip every year, then it becomes a bit surreal. I know a lot of people with kids who wouldn't understand that in the slightest and I don't think their kids suffer too much because of that. But maybe you're saying that because I don't have kids, I see it more rationally and objectively... However, I'm sorry, I think it's nothing to do with having kids, it's a sentimental gesture you have made to yourself which is only fully understandable by you, and only by you. There's nothing wrong with that, we all have our own interests, passions, personal projects and motivations - but it's not some kind of rite of passage that I've missed. It's about distinguishing wants and needs but sometimes indulging our wants. So whilst you are right, it isn't that important, it was a choice that I made long before Charles Green or Mike Ashley darkened the club's door. One aspect that you seem to be missing or overlooking here is thus : Why should any Bear have to change plans which they have had in place for years and long before the likes of Ashley came along, just because Ashley and Charles Green f*cked the Club over ? You don't have to change plans but shouldn't you know the reasons why? The answer is that if NOBODY buys the merch then the pressure is very high on Ashley to improve the situation - even for his ego. While there is enough of a trickle, his big headedness and mean mindedness means he can probably just leave it as it is to punish us. Now you can ignore that reason, over-rule it as less important, or somehow justify it by thinking that one shirt doesn't make much of a difference. But I think you should at least know it and acknowledge it. NONE of us want to give Ashley a penny - but it is a dilemma for those who have had plans laid for many a year. I agree, but like I say, I'd personally prefer it if people made the decision with a fully informed conscience and were comfortable enough with their decision to be able to discuss it openly, and realise that their reasoning might not be convincing to others or just provoke discussion on it. The "why not?" argument could not have been more disappointing. Edited April 25, 2016 by calscot 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Calscot, nothing personal and maybe you need to read my post again, I'm not telling anyone what to do, that was the whole point of the post. Of course I'm aware we all express opinions, that's why I'm expressing mine. Tbh I wasn't pointing to anyone in particular, there are a lot of bears, who, as is their right, share your opinion, I however don't. We are an institution that is part of so many people's life and means so much to so many. If you want to go down your line of doing things that are harmful etc try being a kid who is told they can't have their idols strip because of the fat man. That's not something I want to do as I always take my neice to the games.Anyway, I go back to a personal choice, that was my only point. Sorry, you said there were fans berating other fans, it wasn't true... I'm no expert on bringing up kids but I've never experienced, read, watched or seen allegories where giving children everything they want is a good thing, or that possibly learning a bit about principles, disappointment and compromise are bad things. As Calvin (and Hobbes) dad keeps saying, "It builds character." As I said, make the choice you prefer, but be aware of and acknowledge the possible down sides first. There seems to be a lot of people so busy with self justification that they miss the point that it is exactly that, a free will choice. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedell 5,679 Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 I've said no to my daughter getting a Rangers top. It's not easy, but certainly a lot easier than being in Craig's position when you start out on an annual purchase, and I have a lot of sympathy with him and others who want to buy it. However, when it comes down to it, I'm with Calscot when he says "The answer is that if NOBODY buys the merch then the pressure is very high on Ashley to improve the situation." It's really sad that we are having to question the sentimental love for our club that we want to share with our kids. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearman 9 Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Calscot's suggestion that the club could reproduce replica shirts of these years in the future sounds feasible, could be a bit if a gamble though for those in Craig's position. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTP 0 Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 (edited) edit: not worked, trying to upload a pic. Edited April 25, 2016 by JTP 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooponthewing 1,139 Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Again Calscot, read my post, I didn't say fans were berating other fans, I said "however you can't start berating bears" I had intended this to be an abstract statement that hasn't come over as such, wasn't aimed at anyone personally. Everyone makes a good point on this, it's a very difficult argument to get across on both sides, especially when you bring kids into it and how folk chose to spend their money them. I have no qualms over how anyone spends their money. I will still buy a top for my neice regardless. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 Sorry Coop, I must have read it badly... 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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