Barrie McKay

[forlanssister 3,092]

Nothing demonstrates McCoists' managerial ineptitude more than Barrie McKay cast aside for the one dimensional Fraser Aird.

[craig 5,199]

I'm delighted he's finally coming good. I thought he was a real prospect when I first saw him in the third division; he was doing the same things as he is now, albeit not as successfully. He's a modern european-type player, technical rather than physical, which could easily have been overlooked in Scotland for a more physical player -- almost did with McCoist!

 

He's the model. If we can produce more players, or develop and encourage more technical players, we'll be creating a good foundation for the future.

 

The last player (recently -- relatively recently) -- there might have been others that I'm omitting -- I thought was a real prospect was John Fleck. I think his game was more technical than the norm up here, and it was wasted as a result.

 

Thankfully the Academy, since Sinclair left, has altered approach from the "big bruiser" to the "technically gifted" player. We will reap the rewards in a few years time so long as the Academy is allowed to flourish - they have the right personnel in place, they just now need to be given some time to see the fruits of the labor.

[craig 5,199]

It all depends on what sort of info you are looking for. TM will give you a "hardcore" fact-based idea what a player might be worth. Neither they nor anyone else will claim that this is the actual market value on any given day, as a number of factors won't be included. That said, you have to start somewhere and look at certain value-related criteria, if you decide to whip up such a market value on your website. And those criteria will be used for all players they have, whether he play in the EPL, Albania, or Japan.

 

So what will probably (!) be included ...

 

- the league where a player plays (and that league's standing in game)

- the country where he plays (and its standing in the rankings)

- the club where he plays (and its standing in the rankings)

- the age of the player

- the length of his contract

- his experience on national and international level

- goalkeeping stats / assists/ goals etc. within the lasts months

 

.... and the like.

 

What these prices will not include is ...

 

- does a club want to sell (which will push the price up)

- how many suitors are there (which might push the price up in a signature race)

- where these suitors come from (EPL / Engl. Championship who throw money about like confetti, even if not asked for that)

- a club's own value of the player (to its ambitions, plans etc.)

- the Stubbs-factor

- current form on the field of play

 

... and the like. TM can't give you exact transfer figures, as these last things are obviously variables they can't put any set figure on. Take Kierney, who is valued at roughly 500k, yet has a contract till 2019 and plays some decent stuff. Three or four EPL sides are looking for him, the Yahoos don't want to sell ... so they can put a price tag on him that exceeds his TM value by 8m. IF an EPL club wants to pay that, fine. It is an open market. TM though needs a system to price all players in their data ... a choice they made. for their site. If someone uses this or looks at a Fantasy League site or whatever is up to him/her. By default, TMs effort is commendable and if someone says "he is valued by TM at XYZ thousand", he auto-implies the above criteria, not a "true" market value.

 

All that to say "transfermarket is not even close in its valuation of Barrie McKay"

[craig 5,199]

In what way? That's just a backwards way of thinking. So if the a player developed during McCoist's tenure is good, McCoist is bad, and if the player is not so good, then McCoist is bad? How does that work? Is McCoist proven again to be bad due to Lewis McLeod being good?

 

McKay was developed by the coaches at Rangers - then McCoist debuts guy in the SPL at age 17, plays him 41 times at 18 with his form being up and down, then sends him out on loan for two seasons to help him mature. Warburton comes along and tries him in the team and is a great player. Yeah, it really shows McCoist to be shit...

 

Just what did the former management team do wrong by producing arguably our best player?

 

McKay wasn't developed at Rangers, he was a Killie product.

 

It is also a stretch to say that "the former management team produced him". Did they really ? And if so, how ?

Edited April 21, 2016 by craig

[craig 5,199]

Barrie is really developing into a top class player for us, I don't see any of the youngsters playing in the youths, so can't comment on the up-and-coming, anybody know of players of potential, that have a real chance to show for us next season?

 

Liam Burt is the brightest prospect right now from what I hear - and I think Jamie Barjonas is highly thought of too. The McCrorie brothers are also well thought of and someone within the Club told me that he felt the McCrorie that plays at CB is a potential future Rangers captain.

 

The above are from the Development Squad - I am probably more excited though about the players in the U16 group where they have players such as Billy Gilmour, Mathew Shiels and Dapo Mebude. They were also chasing a young Irish player too who had been offered a deal by, apparently, every single EPL team - and the family had whittled it down to 3 clubs, of which Rangers was one (as the family are bluenoses) - Warburton had met the family a few times too. Havent heard anything so not sure whether we got him or not but I know we were very much in the reckoning. Hopefully we did get him as I heard that when he played against us for an Irish Schoolboys team he was outstanding.

 

Elfideldo is the man, though, for pointing out prospects.

Edited April 21, 2016 by craig

[craig 5,199]

Ha ha, like I said, the pantomime logic on here is that if a player is really good it proves McCoist is shit and if a player doesn't make it, it proves McCoist is shit.

 

Pity Lewis McLeod was so unfortunate...

 

If McCoist puts players out on loan he's shit, if Warburton does it, he's magic.

 

Which of our teenagers has Warburton played regularly? None. His record on the three loans is pretty mixed, but if Oduwa or Zelalem become great players after leaving Ibrox, it will NOT prove MW is bad. If most of our current teenagers don't make it, it won't prove Warburton is bad. If our players come back from loan and play better, it will not prove Warburton is bad.

 

The same applies to all managers, including McCoist.

 

Has McKay looked a better player under McCoist or Warburton ?

Has Wallace looked a better player under McCoist or Warburton ?

 

I rest my case

Edited April 21, 2016 by craig

[der Berliner 3,548]

All that to say "transfermarket is not even close in its valuation of Barrie McKay"

 

To Rangers' current valuation of Barrie McKay. If they have one.

[calscot 0]

McKay wasn't developed at Rangers, he was a Killie product.

 

It is also a stretch to say that "the former management team produced him". Did they really ? And if so, how ?

 

So four years at Rangers from the of age 16 to 20 means nothing - no credit at all for his development? Really? So four years don't count in developing him including 41 games in one season and yet Warburton gets all the credit for developing him after about 6 weeks with him, and also for his continual development after that?

 

Sorry Craig, don't get you at all.

 

How do you "produce" any player, do I really have to spell it out? To produce something worthwhile, you take some raw materials and make something better out of it. Rangers took a 16 year old, promising, young player from Killy and 5 years later he's a top player. This may have been just a natural progression but it's normal for us to give the coaching staff some credit. Well usually "normal" except when it comes to McCoist.

 

He played for our U19s when he was 16 and had his first team debut a year later. I would assume he was therefore training with the first team for that season. He then went on to play 41 games when 18. He was still in the first team squad for half of the next season but only played 4 games. His form was off and the rumours are he had developed an attitude problem. He was then sent out on loan just like plenty of young players at the moment.

 

During that time he was exposed to our training methods, fitness training and nutritional guidance.

 

In what way is that not developing player? Warburton gets credit for developing players in half a season and I haven't seen you disagreeing with that which seems a bit fickle.

 

As I said the actual point is that whether McCoist may have helped or hindered young players, we don't really know for sure, but using a success to "prove" he badly hindered them just does not make any sense. Unless you're omniscient, for all we know doing anything differently may have led to him being less of a player.

 

You can hand wave away as much as you like, but at least be a bit consistent.

[Bearman 9]

 

Elfideldo is the man, though, for pointing out prospects.

 

You certainly named a few, if he comes up with more then the future certainly is bright.

 

What's the name of the young Irishman the EPL are chasing?

[craig 5,199]

Rather than continue with the "Was McCoist shit or was he a victim of circumstance" question I would rather just be thankful that we have Mark Warburton as our manager right now.

 

In one season he has lost a dozen players off the payroll (which McCoist did too when we were demoted) and has created his own team (which McCoist did too after we were demoted) and Warburton has gained us promotion at the first attempt from the Championship (McCoist got two promotions but from lower divisions and not the current one).

 

Ally failed last season to get the team promoted from this division having had 3 years in which to create his own squad and philosophy. And, yes, there were certainly extenuating circumstances. But you cannot simply use those as a comfort blanket for us not being promoted. The man himself was at pains to say that the football department ignore the off-field stuff and whilst we know that to be unlikely, the amount of turmoil that was seen off the pitch really shouldn't have resulted in the dreadful performances on the pitch. Those players were still getting their wages every week.

 

Warburton has proven, to this Bear at least, to be a better manager than McCoist - he won the Championship at first attempt (McCoist didn't), he won the Petrofac at first time of asking (McCoist failed 3 times, or was it two - either way, not exactly covering himself in glory) and Warburton has beaten Celtic at the first attempt whilst being pleasing aesthetically and also being highly competitive in that game - Ally never got the chance to manage against Celtic but I don't think it is too much of a stretch to suggest that had he been in charge we wouldn't have seen a vastly different outcome to what we saw when McDowall took the team against them.

 

All of the indicators would show that Warburton is a superior manager - but everyone is, as always, entitled to their own opinion