Warburton - Changes at Youth Development

[Bearman 9]

Just realised the top clubs in England loan their players out to other teams so progressing their experience without running a 'team' in a lesser league. Are Spanish players 'loaned out' exclusively, or must they play in the B team first?

 

Us taking players on loan at the same time as sending players on loan seems pointless imo.

 

I'll try to explain my conclusion...

 

We take a top young player from another club to help him develop then send one of our own to another club for the same reason? Doesn't make sense at all, unless the player we are sending out isn't as good as the guy we bring in?

 

Zelalem for example has done nothing of note that I can see which is helpful to feeder club or player, whereas Thompson who's not ready as far as MW is concerned sends him out. Not having a go a MW just interested in where the logic stands?

 

Edit: We take a player on loan put him on the bench and send one of ours on loan?

 

Meanwhile we have to pay the 'loanees' wages?

 

Warbs has good credit for being a financial wizard...why pay money for a player sitting on the bench to the decrement of the feeder club at the expense of one of our own?

Edited February 24, 2016 by Bearman

[der Berliner 3,803]

Players not playing does not automatically mean that they "are not good enough". Take for example Thompson, who sure has enough experience from his days in the English developement leagues. Here, he has Halliday and Ball playing in his position ahead of him, at least for the time being. So why not send him out to gain competitive experience rather than u20 games that at best keep him fit? Same with Hardie and Murdoch.

 

Add to that tactics. If Zelalem does not fit the plan for certain games, he will not be used. We didnt have Forrester, King and O'Halloran before, so kept e.g. McKay playing in the front rather than the midfield three. There was a place for Zelalem to take, or indeed Law or Shiels. Now we keep McKay a little deeper, in a more creative as well as attacking role (and I'd rather have him there than Zelalem or Law). Bad for Zelalem, who may come into play once a game is safe and we need someone for keeping the ball.

[pete 2,499]

Young Ajax and Young PSV both play in the Dutch Eerstedivisie(Div.1) PSV average a crowd of around 700 and Ajax 600 so there is a financial award to it as I am sure Rangers and Celtic would at least equal that. I would imagine the old firm game would get a few thousand if they were in a decent league.

They are at the bottom of the divisions supporters league though. with NAC on top averaging 13.000+

NAC really should be an Eredivisie team though. I personally think it is the best way to go but obviously the SPFL don't agree. If we are going to make changes in 2017-18 then maybe this could be one of them.

Edited February 24, 2016 by pete

[calscot 0]

As far as I know English clubs don't have B teams playing in their leagues, why is this?

 

I think the quick answer to that is that there is no room. Their lower leagues each have 24 teams each, and if they are not going to let the OF in, they are definitely not letting B teams in. I'm not sure Spanish football has the same breadth and depth.

[calscot 0]

Young Ajax and Young PSV both play in the Dutch Eerstedivisie(Div.1) PSV average a crowd of around 700 and Ajax 600 so there is a financial award to it as I am sure Rangers and Celtic would at least equal that. I would imagine the old firm game would get a few thousand if they were in a decent league.

They are at the bottom of the divisions supporters league though. with NAC on top averaging 13.000+

NAC really should be an Eredivisie team though. I personally think it is the best way to go but obviously the SPFL don't agree. If we are going to make changes in 2017-18 then maybe this could be one of them.

 

I think clubs will vote against it due to the usual self interest. Our lower leagues, while good for the community in a way, are really of non-league level compared to some other countries. A lot of it's more about a deeper history than most small countries and instead of making the leagues smaller we make them bigger all the time. Part of that is modern day transport that allows the highland and border teams to join the national leagues.

 

So for me the answer is possibly to allow these teams into the higher parts of non-league systems and see if they get promoted naturally to the proper leagues and work their way up. However, that could expose talented, young, but not so well built or savvy youngsters playing against cynical, physical players, who don't want cocky kids making them look bad.

[MacK1950 2,399]

Think what MW is doing just now with 28 day loans is a good idea as length allows them to be considered for selection on return.

[JohnMc 2,801]

Professional footballers, like all professional sportsmen and women, consist of two quite separate ingredients; talent and mentality.

 

Now we have to assume that if a young player has been signed by Rangers then he has the talent. If he doesn’t then no amount of training or loaning will fix that.

 

So we’re left with mentality. This takes in a lot of areas such as the drive to succeed, how you take on advice, lifestyle choices and how you apply yourself in training. What also falls into this is mental strength and understanding the demands of professional football. That’s very hard to learn unless you actually play professional football. It’s taught almost by osmosis, it’s very much on-the-job learning. Professional football is actually quite rough. By that I mean if you are not mentally strong you won’t make it. Young players are often deliberately subjected to verbal abuse and behaviour that would constitute bullying in most other workplaces in an attempt to ‘toughen them up’. If a player can be intimidated then word gets round very quickly and you can be sure that player will be intimidated in every match they play from then on. Career over. It’s one thing a slightly built tricky winger being able to ignore another lad of about the same age, it’s quite another to be able to ignore a 32 year old, or at least handle him. You can’t learn that in youth games and you can’t really learn that in training. You learn that on a wet February afternoon at Bayview in front of 500 people who are all cheering the thug and urging him to stick you in the stand.

 

In that environment players also learn how to stay focussed, where to stand at corners, when to cross and when to pass and all the other vital things professionals know that most supporters barely even notice. You don’t go to college to become a player, at least not in this country, so they need to learn their trade from journeymen. It’s an apprenticeship and the best place to learn that trade is on the field in a real match.

 

I’m against us being able to field ‘2nd teams’ in the lower leagues. For one it devalues those leagues, we should have more respect having been in them ourselves recently. Secondly it won’t be real. Our players won’t be playing alongside men for who that win bonus could make a massive difference to their salary. Men who won't miss them if they fuck up, who’ll encourage them if they see their head go down and who’ll stick up for them on the park when someone is having a go. That’s how they’ll learn.

 

I really like what Warburton is doing. All our young players should spend time out on loan in the lower leagues. It’ll teach them the game and remind them of what they’ve got.

 

Obviously some young players can make the jump to 1st team, but they are outliers, most won’t without some help.

[ranger_syntax 4,422]

1st point is unknown and difficult to judge. I wasn't suggesting that their success was because of their B teams though and I'm sure you know that. The point was that having B teams in their lower leagues certainly doesn't seem to have hindered them.

 

2nd point - I don't see any negative to it and haven't heard anything either. I don't think they are holding other teams back either as they are disbarred from playing in the top leagues.

 

Not sure why it is difficult to judge if it causes success but can easily judge that it isn't a hindrance.

 

The reason I ask is that I think it is unfair for a club to have additional teams, thus additional revenue streams, in the senior league. In addition to that it warps the competition. The league competitions should be the end, not a means to an end.

Edited February 24, 2016 by ranger_syntax