EPL here we go again

[BrahimHemdani 1]

The SFA are a bunch of amateur penpushers and have been since they were formed. They don't have the courage to stand up to UEFA or FIFA. Then again, given the amount of money swilling around the top leagues in Europe there is no chance of somebody like Bayern or Barcelona demanding entry into the EPL, the only scenario I could ever imagine that would force UEFA to look at this whole idea with any more than a dismissive sneer.

It's a debate that comes up online every few years. Some of the ideas pushed forward in an attempt to justify even the most brief debate are bordering on the idiotic in my humble opinion BH.

 

I think you sum it up very well, Boabie.

[pete 2,499]

There is absolutley no value whatsoever in a pirate association, quite simply it would be illegal football with all that entails, a complete non starter IMO.

 

It would certainly not be illegal in the law of the land. I doubt it will happen but it could. Look how it has gone with darts. The new association would soon grow and have it's own International team and European league.

If all the big English teams and Rangers Celtic and possibly other clubs in a division 2 did break away do you think the fans and TV companies will say well we will go and watch Accrington Stanley. I don't think it will happen in the short term or maybe ever but if Sky throw there weight behind a super league you never know it may be nearer than you think. It also happened in Cricket if I remember correctly.

[craig 5,199]

It would certainly not be illegal in the law of the land. I doubt it will happen but it could. Look how it has gone with darts. The new association would soon grow and have it's own International team and European league.

If all the big English teams and Rangers Celtic and possibly other clubs in a division 2 did break away do you think the fans and TV companies will say well we will go and watch Accrington Stanley. I don't think it will happen in the short term or maybe ever but if Sky throw there weight behind a super league you never know it may be nearer than you think. It also happened in Cricket if I remember correctly.

The darts authorities are a far different animal to the footballing authorities though Pete. That is a very important difference

[pete 2,499]

The darts authorities are a far different animal to the footballing authorities though Pete. That is a very important difference

 

Not really Craig. The BDO used to be as powerful as the FA's. All it takes is the main players to want change and break away. If all the top teams decided to break away then it would go on the same roller coaster ride as the darts did. Erik Bristow told the story at Christmas and they sat with Ollie Croft pleading him for more TV tournaments. Ollie Croft didn't want that. The top players asked what would happen if they arranged a few tournaments themselves and was told the players that took part would be suspended. Some wanted to boycott the WC directly but because that would have been unfair to the sponsors they decided to play in the WC. The same thing could quite easily happen in football if all the top clubs join together. If Blatter had not been removed(He is still on his gigantic wage) then I think all the associations would have started to break away in the near future. The FA were already contemplating it.

[BrahimHemdani 1]

It would certainly not be illegal in the law of the land. I doubt it will happen but it could. Look how it has gone with darts. The new association would soon grow and have it's own International team and European league.

If all the big English teams and Rangers Celtic and possibly other clubs in a division 2 did break away do you think the fans and TV companies will say well we will go and watch Accrington Stanley. I don't think it will happen in the short term or maybe ever but if Sky throw there weight behind a super league you never know it may be nearer than you think. It also happened in Cricket if I remember correctly.

 

I think you know that I didn't mean illegal in terms of the law of the land, I mean it in a football sense.

 

I don't know anything about how darts is organised but I suppose another analogy would be boxing where you might end up with three or four world champions. Is that what you would like to see?

 

FIFA gets and disburses its money from running the World Cup every four years and I imagine UEFA gets its money from a levy on the European League games and TV rights etc. The 2014 World Cup generated $4.8 billion in revenue for FIFA compared to $2.2 billion in expenses. Over the four-year cycle, the event turned a $2.6 billion profit.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/fifa-brazil-world-cup-revenue-2015-3

 

More than one billion fans tuned in to watch the final of the 2014 FIFA World Cup Brazil™, with the competition reaching a global in-home television audience of 3.2 billion people, according to final figures from FIFA and Kantar Media.

 

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/news/y=2015/m=12/news=2014-fifa-world-cuptm-reached-3-2-billion-viewers-one-billion-watched--2745519.html

 

The 32 clubs that competed in the 2014/15 UEFA Champions League shared almost €988m, not including play-off contributions, in payments from UEFA – €36m up on the previous season. Each club was entitled to a minimum payment of €8.6 for participation in the competition. Additionally, performance bonuses were paid for every win (€1m) or draw (€0.5m) in the group stage, as well as for each knockout round successfully negotiated, while monies from the market pool were divided according to the proportional value of the national television market allocated to each individual club, among other factors.

 

The performance bonuses for reaching each knockout round were €3.5m for the last 16, an additional €3.9m for the quarter-finals and €4.9m more for the semi-finals. FC Barcelona collected €10.5m for winning the final in Berlin, and runners-up Juventus received €6.5m.

 

The 20 clubs involved in the play-offs shared €42m, which meant that total participation payments reached almost €1.030bn. An additional €3.5 allocated to the European Club Association in accordance with a memorandum of understanding with UEFA brought the total distribution from the 2014/15 season to over €1.033bn. Teams that did not advance past the three qualifying rounds were rewarded with fixed sums, with extra solidarity bonuses for national champions that missed the play-offs.

 

Meanwhile, €85m of the 2014/15 UEFA Champions League revenue will help top-flight clubs which do not take part in the competition. The revenue is being redistributed to those clubs for use in youth development or local community programmes, and is being made available for distribution via the professional leagues or national associations.

 

The associations are split into two categories for these payments – those with participants in the UEFA Champions League group stage (18 associations receiving €71.1m), and those without participants in the group stage (36 associations receiving €11m).

 

An additional payment of €2.9m in total will be made to the 19 national associations that were represented in the play-offs.

 

http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/newsid=2294532.html

 

Champions League surpasses Super Bowl

 

THE growth of the Champions League into a football phenomenon has been underlined by a new study which reveals it has usurped the Super Bowl to become the world’s biggest annual sporting event.

 

In 2012, the Super Bowl achieved an impressive peak audience of 111.3m.

 

However, the Champions League attracted a global TV audience estimated at a staggering 300m. (2013 - 360 million)

 

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/366335/Champions-League-surpasses-Super-Bowl

 

I don't know how much revenue there is in darts but I found that the prize fund in 2015 was £1.5M with the top prize increased to £300,000 - going up from the £250,000 paid to 2015 winner Gary Anderson http://www.skysports.com/darts/news/12288/9908886/world-darts-championship-a-record-prize-has-been-confirmed-for-the-winner

 

The live coverage on Sky Sports Darts reached over four million viewers across the 14 days of the William Hill World Darts Championship, including a record audience of more than 1.7 million for the thrilling final between Anderson and Phil Taylor. (2015)

 

http://www.pdc.tv/world-darts-championship/article/svhw0jqu5mdr1cm69xw93szh4/title/world-championship-smashes-tv-records

 

So darts is a tiddler in both money and audience terms and fairly easy to set up on your own I would think.

 

Are football clubs and countries going to start a new FIFA and UEFA, I doubt it. If Blatter and Platini had not been suspended then England MIGHT have pulled out, although I doubt it; but start a rival FIFA, there's as much chance of that as Rangers and Celtic playing in England or a breakaway league i.e. none at all.

Edited January 20, 2016 by BrahimHemdani

[pete 2,499]

I think you know that I didn't mean illegal in terms of the law of the land, I mean it in a football sense.

 

I don't know anything about how darts is organised but I suppose another analogy would be boxing where you might end up with three or four world champions. Is that what you would like to see?

 

FIFA gets and disburses its money from running the World Cup every four years and I imagine UEFA gets its money from a levy on the European League games and TV rights etc. The 2014 World Cup generated $4.8 billion in revenue for FIFA compared to $2.2 billion in expenses. Over the four-year cycle, the event turned a $2.6 billion profit.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/fifa-brazil-world-cup-revenue-2015-3

 

More than one billion fans tuned in to watch the final of the 2014 FIFA World Cup Brazil™, with the competition reaching a global in-home television audience of 3.2 billion people, according to final figures from FIFA and Kantar Media.

 

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/news/y=2015/m=12/news=2014-fifa-world-cuptm-reached-3-2-billion-viewers-one-billion-watched--2745519.html

 

The 32 clubs that competed in the 2014/15 UEFA Champions League shared almost €988m, not including play-off contributions, in payments from UEFA – €36m up on the previous season. Each club was entitled to a minimum payment of €8.6 for participation in the competition. Additionally, performance bonuses were paid for every win (€1m) or draw (€0.5m) in the group stage, as well as for each knockout round successfully negotiated, while monies from the market pool were divided according to the proportional value of the national television market allocated to each individual club, among other factors.

 

The performance bonuses for reaching each knockout round were €3.5m for the last 16, an additional €3.9m for the quarter-finals and €4.9m more for the semi-finals. FC Barcelona collected €10.5m for winning the final in Berlin, and runners-up Juventus received €6.5m.

 

The 20 clubs involved in the play-offs shared €42m, which meant that total participation payments reached almost €1.030bn. An additional €3.5 allocated to the European Club Association in accordance with a memorandum of understanding with UEFA brought the total distribution from the 2014/15 season to over €1.033bn. Teams that did not advance past the three qualifying rounds were rewarded with fixed sums, with extra solidarity bonuses for national champions that missed the play-offs.

 

Meanwhile, €85m of the 2014/15 UEFA Champions League revenue will help top-flight clubs which do not take part in the competition. The revenue is being redistributed to those clubs for use in youth development or local community programmes, and is being made available for distribution via the professional leagues or national associations.

 

The associations are split into two categories for these payments – those with participants in the UEFA Champions League group stage (18 associations receiving €71.1m), and those without participants in the group stage (36 associations receiving €11m).

 

An additional payment of €2.9m in total will be made to the 19 national associations that were represented in the play-offs.

 

http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/newsid=2294532.html

 

Champions League surpasses Super Bowl

 

THE growth of the Champions League into a football phenomenon has been underlined by a new study which reveals it has usurped the Super Bowl to become the world’s biggest annual sporting event.

 

In 2012, the Super Bowl achieved an impressive peak audience of 111.3m.

 

However, the Champions League attracted a global TV audience estimated at a staggering 300m. (2013 - 360 million)

 

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/366335/Champions-League-surpasses-Super-Bowl

 

I don't know how much revenue there is in darts but I found that the prize fund in 2015 was £1.5M with the top prize increased to £300,000 - going up from the £250,000 paid to 2015 winner Gary Anderson http://www.skysports.com/darts/news/12288/9908886/world-darts-championship-a-record-prize-has-been-confirmed-for-the-winner

 

The live coverage on Sky Sports Darts reached over four million viewers across the 14 days of the William Hill World Darts Championship, including a record audience of more than 1.7 million for the thrilling final between Anderson and Phil Taylor. (2015)

 

http://www.pdc.tv/world-darts-championship/article/svhw0jqu5mdr1cm69xw93szh4/title/world-championship-smashes-tv-records

 

So darts is a tiddler in both money and audience terms and fairly easy to set up on your own I would think.

 

Are football clubs and countries going to start a new FIFA and UEFA, I doubt it. If Blatter and Platini had not been suspended then England MIGHT have pulled out, although I doubt it; but start a rival FIFA, there's as much chance of that as Rangers and Celtic playing in England or a breakaway league i.e. none at all.

 

I think you are missing the point. Yes Fifa is huge and yes darts is much smaller but a building is only as strong as it's bricks. If the bricks are weak the biggest buildings can fall just as easy. the principle stays the same no matter the the size. Many of the top sponsors were ready to quit FIFA just recently( that is a fact) as were the FA. If! (and it is all if) The FA had broken away and gotten all of the ex-Fifa sponsors on their side. They already have Sky the major TV player in European Football. FIFA are then left without sponsors and I think you could safely say that other FA's would have followed suit and FIFA would have been left with it's African and possibly South American countries. That almost happened it is not a fable or a made up story. Do I care if there were 2 different football world cups, well not really I would only be interested in the Scotland team carrying Rangers players. I admit it would be a pity though.

 

Waw with just mentioning Pirate league which I only really said off the cuff to point out it was not illegal in law to start up another Football Association. I did actually think you meant illegal in law as I think it it is a mute point in a football way as it is not likely to say in the FIFA rules. Starting up an external Football association is fine by us.

Edited January 20, 2016 by pete

[buster. 5,363]

Scottish football is the sporting equivalent to a low budget Groundhog Day.

 

Same Shit Different Season.

 

- League reconstruction

- Summer football

- Old Firm to England

- Fans behaviour

- European Failure for clubs

- Scotland fail to qualify

- How can we impove

- Go back to the top of list

[ian1964 10,780]

Scottish football is the sporting equivalent to a low budget Groundhog Day.

 

Same Shit Different Season.

 

- League reconstruction

- Summer football

- Old Firm to England

- Fans behaviour

- European Failure for clubs

- Scotland fail to qualify

- How can we impove

- Go back to the top of list

 

Doncaster and Regan have taken well over £1m each in salary during their incompetent reign and yet nobody takes them to task over their combined failures!,Scottish fitba eh!

[Bluedell 5,716]

Doncaster and Regan have taken well over £1m each in salary during their incompetent reign and yet nobody takes them to task over their combined failures!,Scottish fitba eh!

 

Failures? They have succeeded in what they were employed to do:

 

Screw Rangers? Check

Give Lawwell free reign? Check

[buster. 5,363]

Doncaster and Regan have taken well over £1m each in salary during their incompetent reign and yet nobody takes them to task over their combined failures!,Scottish fitba eh!

 

The media need something to drone on about and are only too willing to help kick-start the old chestnuts season after season and to a degree it works for them within what has always generally been a low quality debate.

 

Social media tends to generally follow their lead but sometimes includes some originality and out of the box thinking that tends to get lost amongst the noise that may aswell be C&P'd from yesteryear.

 

Most other industries would have seen Doncaster and Regan long gone.

Aslong as the executives are coining it in they won't 'rock the boat' and just sit there pointing to the clubs and inferring that it is their fault because it is the clubs who decide on matters. Fair enough, but why pay them so much then and why not look at the management structure itself.

 

 

 

There are limits as to what Scottish football can realistically do but as it stands, from the top down it is a bit of joke and any lasting solutions may need to start at the top and not only personnel............but they won't, at least not any time soon.

Edited January 20, 2016 by buster.