David Weir...

[Bruno55 0]

The football under McCoist was some of the worst I've seen from a Rangers team, and to make things worse, it was in the lowest Leagues in which we have played.

 

Plus his team went thru the league undefeared..

[Bruno55 0]

Plus his team went thru the league undefeared..

 

Defeated.....

[chilledbear 16]

I can't remember, fell asleep during most of them.

[craig 5,199]

Teams who are "found out time and again", don't go through a season unbeaten. You might not like McCoist and he wasn't a great manager, but there is no need to do the "say something derogatory often enough and it becomes fact" stuff, when it's patently not true when you look at the facts. When you are overly derogatory you are just being insulting - as you'd expect from a rival. When you are insulting about your own manager about how we played, you're also insulting the club - especially by pretty much ignoring the problems we've had, which you'd think a Rangers fan would get.

 

By all accounts McCoist did a job that was the most difficult in Scottish football history for 3 and a half years (whether you think he was any good or not), and he left when Llambias came in and made an increasingly arduous job virtually impossible - as can be seen by our drop in results at that time, which two subsequent managers couldn't correct - one without Lliambias and the shit board - who was probably the most highly rated manager in Scotland a few year back.

 

The strange thing is that taking your comments at face value and factoring in Whyte and admin, the shit board, the fan boycott etc, you look at the results and it would seem that without the shit we had and with a bright new dawn, with the fans back and a progressive management team, it would be difficult to argue that we made any progress at all compared to a manager you think is so shit.

 

There has been improvement in results but it's been pretty marginal (worse than two years ago and not much better than the start we had 4 years ago) and could easily be wholly attributed to the improved situation of the club.

 

As I've said before, if McCoist was found out by all the other managers, the facts and mitigating circumstances, make our current management team look not that much better and any optimism would misplaced - apart from some nicer football to watch now and again.

 

Basically you're coming out with the rhetoric that we were completely shite, when we weren't THAT bad. I would say that's a strange position for a fan. I can ignore that kind of crap from the Tims but not when it's from one of our own.

 

It's ironic that you like to deal with facts... Which the above are... But conveniently ignore the subjective... Which is that McCoist was dealing with a budget 1,000 times larger (and maybe more) of his competition. I can make McCoist the manager look a world beater too... But the reality is that he was a terrible football manager, no matter how any times you try to beat our collective head off the wall.

 

Speak about McCoist the manager when comparing him to a like set of situations... oh wait... he couldn't get out of the championship with at least 10 times the budget of anyone else.....

 

And before you start on the "he had extenuating circumstances" line.....Hearts worked on the exact same circumstances... And wiped the floor with McCoist !!!

[craig 5,199]

Teams who are "found out time and again", don't go through a season unbeaten. You might not like McCoist and he wasn't a great manager, but there is no need to do the "say something derogatory often enough and it becomes fact" stuff, when it's patently not true when you look at the facts. When you are overly derogatory you are just being insulting - as you'd expect from a rival. When you are insulting about your own manager about how we played, you're also insulting the club - especially by pretty much ignoring the problems we've had, which you'd think a Rangers fan would get.

 

By all accounts McCoist did a job that was the most difficult in Scottish football history for 3 and a half years (whether you think he was any good or not), and he left when Llambias came in and made an increasingly arduous job virtually impossible - as can be seen by our drop in results at that time, which two subsequent managers couldn't correct - one without Lliambias and the shit board - who was probably the most highly rated manager in Scotland a few year back.

 

The strange thing is that taking your comments at face value and factoring in Whyte and admin, the shit board, the fan boycott etc, you look at the results and it would seem that without the shit we had and with a bright new dawn, with the fans back and a progressive management team, it would be difficult to argue that we made any progress at all compared to a manager you think is so shit.

 

There has been improvement in results but it's been pretty marginal (worse than two years ago and not much better than the start we had 4 years ago) and could easily be wholly attributed to the improved situation of the club.

 

As I've said before, if McCoist was found out by all the other managers, the facts and mitigating circumstances, make our current management team look not that much better and any optimism would misplaced - apart from some nicer football to watch now and again.

 

Basically you're coming out with the rhetoric that we were completely shite, when we weren't THAT bad. I would say that's a strange position for a fan. I can ignore that kind of crap from the Tims but not when it's from one of our own.

 

The job he did didn't seem to phase Robbie Neilson much.....

[craig 5,199]

Teams who are "found out time and again", don't go through a season unbeaten. You might not like McCoist and he wasn't a great manager, but there is no need to do the "say something derogatory often enough and it becomes fact" stuff, when it's patently not true when you look at the facts. When you are overly derogatory you are just being insulting - as you'd expect from a rival. When you are insulting about your own manager about how we played, you're also insulting the club - especially by pretty much ignoring the problems we've had, which you'd think a Rangers fan would get.

 

By all accounts McCoist did a job that was the most difficult in Scottish football history for 3 and a half years (whether you think he was any good or not), and he left when Llambias came in and made an increasingly arduous job virtually impossible - as can be seen by our drop in results at that time, which two subsequent managers couldn't correct - one without Lliambias and the shit board - who was probably the most highly rated manager in Scotland a few year back.

 

The strange thing is that taking your comments at face value and factoring in Whyte and admin, the shit board, the fan boycott etc, you look at the results and it would seem that without the shit we had and with a bright new dawn, with the fans back and a progressive management team, it would be difficult to argue that we made any progress at all compared to a manager you think is so shit.

 

There has been improvement in results but it's been pretty marginal (worse than two years ago and not much better than the start we had 4 years ago) and could easily be wholly attributed to the improved situation of the club.

 

As I've said before, if McCoist was found out by all the other managers, the facts and mitigating circumstances, make our current management team look not that much better and any optimism would misplaced - apart from some nicer football to watch now and again.

 

Basically you're coming out with the rhetoric that we were completely shite, when we weren't THAT bad. I would say that's a strange position for a fan. I can ignore that kind of crap from the Tims but not when it's from one of our own.

 

Honestly Cal... If it wasn't for the fact that I am on my iPad, in a training course and with spotty Internet.... I would poke a number of holes through your post above.

 

The more I read it the less I believe that you have witnessed McCoists "leadership" of our team during his tenure

[craig 5,199]

As I've said before, I watched games on TV when available and any highlights I could find, which may not be anywhere near the same as watching every game live, but there is a distinction to seeing football you find pleasing and getting results.

 

Also, I recall seeing plenty of stuff on telly and online that wasn't "utter garbage", especially the first half of the first season, and I saw plenty of games on TV or streams where while it wasn't scintillating it was perfectly watchable and somewhat enjoyable - and with far less long balls than was moaned about. The last game I was able to get to was the Newcastle game, and that was really enjoyable.

 

The fact you found it all "utter garbage without exception", I think has quite a big proportion of being your own problem. Are you sure you would find the football of the likes of Struth that enjoyable? If so, how do you know?

 

As I've said before, there are plenty of football fans who follow lesser teams with lesser players (postmen and plumbers and all) who play worse football and who also don't have the benefit of much hope of winning anything far less winning a title while never losing a game. Under that premise, I have more respect for a not so successful manager than a fan that labels his own team "utter garbage" when the results just don't bear that out. I really didn't think we were that kind of people.

 

As I said that kind of trash talk goes beyond just insulting our manager, it insults the team and club. Can you imagine a Tim vandalising our wiki page, saying Rangers are a club that play utter garbage football without exception..? It seems you'd be fine with it.

 

A lot of words defending the indefensible. Utter garbage IS apt. It isn't a Tim vs Bear philosophy, it is called realism.

 

You continue to defend McCoists tenure when it cannot be legitimately defended. 1,000 times the budget of many teams yet in footballing terms "outplayed". The only thing his teams did was be fitter and beat teams to death... Think back on his tenure and, quickly, name me a team that he and his players defeated handsome,y in terms of play...... Yep, you can't.

 

Worse...... You try to compare his and his results to Warburton . That's an absolute joke !!!! You should be embarrassed. Which season are you comparing McCoist and his results to Warburton.... Because it certainly isnt in the Championship..... Which is the only apples vs apples comparison that can be made of the two.

[craig 5,199]

No disrespect cal but your defense of McCoist us laughable.

 

I defended him far too long myself.... But it is abundantly clear to anyone with just one eye that he was AWFUL. No amount of defending him, what he suffered, the club's woes etc..... Will be enough to counter the fact his resources were 1,000 times if his competition.... And that his assembled squad was one full of internationals... Who he couldn't motivate nor organize into a winning team (and please don't use his undefeated season in the THIRD tier as some justification).

 

He got found out.... BEFORE it mattered. In the SECOND tier... Not the top tier.... The second tier !!!!

[Scott7 6,167]

His teams were fitter? Really?

 

I suppose they were to an extent but not as fit as full-timers should have been.

[calscot 0]

He's not my bogeyman he was simply a totally inept manager of Rangers, you may find it hard to believe that's not a view that is exclusively mine.

 

It's hard to believe that when you blame him for absolutely everything. Reality factor says that can't possibly be true.

 

It wasn't Ashley who declared that he wasn't going to change anything football wise though it was MacDowell himself.

 

If you don't believe there was an effect due to the board, Llambias, the fan boycott, and the media crap, then that's your opinion, not fact. It is not unreasonable to think it has a large effect especially when you look at the coincidental results.

 

Aw diddums.

 

FFS grow up and man up.

 

The criticism is entirely valid again that's a view that isn't exclusively mine alone.

 

People have different views and share views, it doesn't make one view the only valid one. You seem to struggle with that.

 

I'll leave the self loving to you as it's your forte.

 

You just can't help the weirdo crap can you? Man up and deal with the fact that not everyone agrees with you.

 

Who tied his hands in Malmo or Maribor et al?

 

Shit happens, happened to Celtic. Wasn't good but it also again wasn't as extreme as people like you like to think - also McCoist did NOT have the full backing of Whyte.

 

The fully backed Warburton who has spent less in total for a Championship topping team than McCoist spunked on Templeton for the third division,

 

You really think that's a worthy argument. What was that about the bogeyman again?

 

but then Warburton does actually spend time on the training ground working with players as opposed to having them take pot shots at his arse. The gap in comparison isn't just huge it's out of sight.

 

You really don't think he's the bogeyman? Try to avoid the straw man fallacy.

 

The facts as I witnessed them do bear my opinion out the football was utter shite virtually without exception.

 

No, that's called "an opinion".

 

You've done nothing but argue that the football was not in your words "horrible" or as I put it "utter shite".

 

Not all of it in my opinion. Like I say, there are plenty of teams who play worse and don't win much. Their fans don't tend to act like you.

 

It's clear he wasn't even doing just enough as if he was then we'd be in the top tier.

 

That is pure speculation. He was in second place and had already defeated Hibs and SP teams. The results went downhill after Llambias arrived and it was noticeable. That's when McCoist resigned. It went far worse after he left, and about the most successful Scottish Manager in the country available, actually did worse - AFTER Ashley and Llambias were ousted. It was his successors who failed a promotion through the play-offs. They had enough tools to do it.

 

That history will show 2 years in the second tier of Scottish football due to McCoist's ineptitude will it not? It'll be a lot more relevant than a season unbeaten i the third tier.

 

In your opinion. You are really stretching it now.

 

It was a point it's just that you're to narcissistic to see it.

 

Again with this weird shit. You are obsessed and so, so ironic on many levels. Really, read things back and look at the difference in style. Can you not just deal with actual debate? At worst I'll disagree with, at best you might be able to persuade me otherwise - although that's impossible to do without actually seeing other's viewpoint. Just keep saying it and maybe you can make it stick...

 

Try reading back the thread, I never claimed any manager found him out as there simply wasn't anything there to find, the dispute is your umbrage with my view that MCoist's football was utter shite.

 

As I recall you responded to me. Where's the "virtually without exception" that was soooo important? As said that's your opinion, live with the fact that not everyone will agree. Not many people who win all the time think they are utter shite - you are being absolute you all the, "he had more money" is irrelevant in that context.

 

I really don't know what your motivation is to be so agitated on your soap box. My motivation is that I see some stuff as overly extreme and disparaging to Rangers, I think it's reasonable in that context to defend the club against anything derogatory that seems to me to deny the facts.