MoodyBlue 0 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 To be fair, I'm not convinced that even the best managers & coaches in the world would be able to make significant improvements to some of our under-performing and/or under-skilled players. Players who go through a whole season playing almost every game and looking distinctly average in ability in almost every game are basically just distinctly average players. You'd need a miracle or some sort of magic or voodoo to turn some of these guys into great players. I know what you're saying and you make fair points. When it is obvious to a blind man what the weaknesses are, the coaches should be working on the players to improve some of the basic skills. If this means extra training then so be it. There has just been no intelligence in the dugout or on the pitch for years. Thankfully W&W are intelligent guys - let's just pray they can get a bit more out the existing lot. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Barristan Selmy 222 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Someone (SBS I think) said "there's a reason there's a complete lack of English players and coaches abroad" as some kind of fact. It's not, there are scores of English players and coaches 'abroad' in all sorts of leagues. The main reason for this misapprehension is the lack of English players at top English sides. It's worth remembering the governing factor in almost everything in professional football; money. If an English player can live in England and play in the Championship and earn more than he would at an La Liga side outside of their 'big two' then that's what they do. The reason Lampard and Gerrard are now plying their trade in America (that's abroad btw) is because of the money on offer. I'm no fan of the EPL or its greed is good mantra, if the money dried up tomorrow you'd suddenly see English players and coaches appearing in leagues where the salaries were higher. The standard of player in England is as high as anywhere in the world and we are culturally and linguistically identical, any manager who didn't look there first for players should be severely questioned. Can you advise who all of the English players and coaches are in big leagues? The number of English players playing in the CL and Europa is one of the lowest in Europe. If they were that good, big European sides would be signing them. In the later stages of European trophies there is hardly ever any British players. The standard of player in the Premiership is not as high as everywhere else. They get exposed each year in both European trophies, Chelsea are the best team by a mile and they were nowhere near challenging for the CL this season. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Barristan Selmy 222 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) It's down to money, pure and simple. During the 1980s, when English football was in a financial slump (relatively speaking) Serie A had lots of English players; Gascoigne, Platt, Ince, Wilkins, Hately, Paul Elliot, Blizzard, Rideout, Cowans and Trevor Francis not to mention Souness, Joe Jordan and Liam Brady who all came from English football. They don't just now because even the top Italian sides struggle to compete with middling EPL clubs on salary. The richest leagues tend to have the best players, wherever they are from. The richest clubs recruit the best players wherever they are from, see above. Why isn't everyone in the Barca team Spanish? Because they can afford to sign the best players, not just the best Spanish players. Why isn't everyone in the Bayern side German, they're world champions after all? It's the same in England. Spanish football is relatively impoverished outside of two or arguably three sides so they tend to lose their good players too. This isn't about signing 'Englishmen' but looking at the English leagues for players (this Kiernan isn't English I understand). The Bayern and Barca squads are full of German and Spanish players. It's not the same in England at all. The top 4 in England sign foreign players because they are better. If England are so good why do they perform so terribly in international tournaments? Kiernan is English. Edited June 18, 2015 by Ser Barristan Selmy 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waltersgotstyle 307 Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 The Bayern and Barca squads are full of German and Spanish players. It's not the same in England at all. The top 4 in England sign foreign players because they are better. If England are so good why do they perform so terribly in international tournaments? Kiernan is English. Kiernan is Irish 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian1964 10,761 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Kiernan is Irish He was born in England and obviously chose to be Irish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Kiernan 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangersitis 0 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 It's down to money, pure and simple. During the 1980s, when English football was in a financial slump (relatively speaking) Serie A had lots of English players; Gascoigne, Platt, Ince, Wilkins, Hately, Paul Elliot, Blizzard, Rideout, Cowans and Trevor Francis not to mention Souness, Joe Jordan and Liam Brady who all came from English football. They don't just now because even the top Italian sides struggle to compete with middling EPL clubs on salary. The richest leagues tend to have the best players, wherever they are from. The richest clubs recruit the best players wherever they are from, see above. Why isn't everyone in the Barca team Spanish? Because they can afford to sign the best players, not just the best Spanish players. Why isn't everyone in the Bayern side German, they're world champions after all? It's the same in England. Spanish football is relatively impoverished outside of two or arguably three sides so they tend to lose their good players too. This isn't about signing 'Englishmen' but looking at the English leagues for players (this Kiernan isn't English I understand). i think that you may have swallowed the Sky Sports hype. Despite being awash with cash, they consistently fail on the big stage. Here are the statistics from the last five years of the Champions League - they make for interesting reading. Also, I wouldn't have any English - based players in my world XI although I do concede that it is something which is subjective. Quarter Finalists Spain 13 Germany 7 England 6 France 5 Italy 4 Portugal 2 Cyprus 1 Turkey 1 Ukraine 1 Semi Finalists Spain 10 Germany 6 England 3 Italy 1 Finalists Spain 4 Germany 3 England 2 Italy 1 Winners Spain 3 Germany 1 England 1 The same stats for the Europa League appear to show that despite being plundered by the EPL there is sufficient talent to do the business where it matters. Quarter Finalists Spain 7 Portugal 7 Holland 4 Italy 4 Ukraine 4 England 3 Germany 3 Russia 3 Switzerland 2 Belgium 1 France 1 Turkey 1 Semi Finalists Spain 7 Portugal 5 Italy 3 England 2 Russia 1 Switzerland 1 Ukraine 1 Finalists Spain 4 Portugal 3 England 1 Switzerland 1 Ukraine 1 Winners Spain 3 England 1 Portugal 1 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMc 2,801 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Can you advise who all of the English players and coaches are in big leagues? The number of English players playing in the CL and Europa is one of the lowest in Europe. If they were that good, big European sides would be signing them. In the later stages of European trophies there is hardly ever any British players. The standard of player in the Premiership is not as high as everywhere else. They get exposed each year in both European trophies, Chelsea are the best team by a mile and they were nowhere near challenging for the CL this season. You said "there's a complete lack of English players and coaches abroad", those are your words not mine. If you want to change your sweeping and incorrect statement to 'in the big leagues' then fine, but you should have said that first time round. Even then money is still the deciding factor, if the English leagues suddenly run out of money you'll see English players move abroad. That's what happened with Spanish players after the economic crash. Prior to that Spanish players stayed in Spain because they could, the salaries were as good if not better than anywhere else. Now they aren't they move abroad. Go figure. You seem to be struggling to differentiate between an English person and the football leagues based in England. The EPL is as strong as any league in the world, I don't see how anyone can deny that. It contains many of the finest footballers on the planet and some of the best club sides. As such the levels below the top level tend to be stronger than similar divisions elsewhere. Your Champion's League statement doesn't stand up to scrutiny either. In the last ten years English clubs have won the trophy 3 times and been runners up 5 times, only Spain has more winners in that time (five) and runners up once. You can have the Europa Cup, as you probably know most English sides don't take it too seriously, more fool them. The Bayern and Barca squads are full of German and Spanish players. It's not the same in England at all. The top 4 in England sign foreign players because they are better. If England are so good why do they perform so terribly in international tournaments? Actually the current Bayern squad has 11 Germans in a squad of 25 and the Barcelona squad has only 9 Spanish players out of the 25. Not my idea of "full" it has to be said. The current Man United squad contains 34 players. 15 are English and two more Northern Irish, so British. That's a higher ratio of 'home' players than either Barca or Bayern. I agree that the top four in England sign players who are better than the rest, whether they are English, Spanish of Martian, they can afford pretty much who they want and so buy that way. Indeed it goes deeper than the top four. That doesn't make the English leagues poor or English players sub standard though. It's pure economics, that's all. Kiernan is English. Fair enough, I'd never heard of him until this week and thought I'd read he was Irish. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMc 2,801 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 i think that you may have swallowed the Sky Sports hype. Despite being awash with cash, they consistently fail on the big stage. Here are the statistics from the last five years of the Champions League - they make for interesting reading. Also, I wouldn't have any English - based players in my world XI although I do concede that it is something which is subjective. The same stats for the Europa League appear to show that despite being plundered by the EPL there is sufficient talent to do the business where it matters. With respect what do those Europa League stats prove? Are we saying that the Dutch, Swiss and Portuguese leagues are as good as the English one? Really? Do your Champion's League stats again for the last decade. I think most people would accept that Spanish football is of a very high standard, I certainly would. This isn't about saying Spanish football is poorer than English football or German football, it's about not criticising our new manager for looking at the English league for his first signing. If he signed some guy we'd never heard of from a second tier Spanish side he might be just as good a player as this Keirnan lad. But he's going to take time to adjust to Scottish football and, more challenging, to living in Glasgow, a very different culture on many levels to what he's been raised in and used too. That's not to say he couldn't do it, just that it's more of a risk than buying an English (or Irish, whatever he is) player. Looking at one of the nations with the strongest league in the world, with who we are identical in almost every way culturally is the most sensible thing any new manager could do. If that manager also happens to know these leagues well because he's spent his entire working life in them too, well I'm sorry but it's a no brainer. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gisabeer 409 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 When is he due to sign? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangersitis 0 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 With respect what do those Europa League stats prove? Are we saying that the Dutch, Swiss and Portuguese leagues are as good as the English one? Really? Do your Champion's League stats again for the last decade. I think most people would accept that Spanish football is of a very high standard, I certainly would. This isn't about saying Spanish football is poorer than English football or German football, it's about not criticising our new manager for looking at the English league for his first signing. If he signed some guy we'd never heard of from a second tier Spanish side he might be just as good a player as this Keirnan lad. But he's going to take time to adjust to Scottish football and, more challenging, to living in Glasgow, a very different culture on many levels to what he's been raised in and used too. That's not to say he couldn't do it, just that it's more of a risk than buying an English (or Irish, whatever he is) player. Looking at one of the nations with the strongest league in the world, with who we are identical in almost every way culturally is the most sensible thing any new manager could do. If that manager also happens to know these leagues well because he's spent his entire working life in them too, well I'm sorry but it's a no brainer. You do the CL stats for the last decade if you feel so inclined. I gave you five years as that is what the UEFA co-efficient is based on. The stats for the Europa League show that the high standard that you claim exists in the English game would not appear to go much below the top 4 or 5 clubs. The Spanish and Portuguese teams are consistently reaching the latter stages of the competition. It wasn't so long ago that you were slagging off Brentford as a tinpot club when Lewis McLeod went to them, yet now we have you waxing lyrical about the merits of Rangers buying players from that league and below....and picked by the very same manager who was in charge at that flash in the pan club! 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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