trublusince1982 243 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 And you would state here and now that Walter's side hardly ever did that? when all things are considered like expense and walters own words on winning being the only aim. Yes his ethos brought poorer football than the outlay could have achieved have said it before the run to the uefa cup were i went to every game, most of the football was awful to watch. Most games ended with "onwards and upwards but that was brutal "comments. When he was spending £22k a week on the likes of whittaker for right back he could have aimed for more exciting attributes in a right back but that wasnt the style he preferred. Walter has said it before himself winning at any cost was the goal. I just see that ethos as no longer viable in the long term if we want to grow. The same ethos now when up against the competition we face for youngsters attention will leave us diminishing year on year. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoodyBlue 0 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Let's not kid ourselves on that Walter Smith is some sort of football genuis. In a league that ranks outside onf the top 20 in Europe Smith won some trophies in a two team league. And during much of his time he had more money to spend than all the other clubs combined. Put in perspective, it's not a genuinely great story to write home and get excited about. His brand of 'football' was utterly miserable to watch most of the time. As for effectively appointing McCoist as manger - well that says it all. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewarty 2,027 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) Let's not kid ourselves on that Walter Smith is some sort of football genuis. In a league that ranks outside onf the top 20 in Europe Smith won some trophies in a two team league. And during much of his time he had more money to spend than all the other clubs combined. Put in perspective, it's not a genuinely great story to write home and get excited about. His brand of 'football' was utterly miserable to watch most of the time. As for effectively appointing McCoist as manger - well that says it all. Sir Alex Ferguson thought he was good enough to help him out at Man U. And the likes of Giggs only ever spoke glowingly about his work. But what do they know? Edited June 17, 2015 by stewarty 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoodyBlue 0 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Sir Alex Ferguson thought he was good enough to help him out at Man U. And the likes of Giggs only ever spoke glowingly about his work. But what do they know? Smith was Fergie's mate. Ferguson also recommended Moyes for the Man Utd job. Ask Everton fans what they thought of Smith and you'll get a realistic answer about his 'talents' 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewarty 2,027 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) Smith was Fergie's mate. Ferguson also recommended Moyes for the Man Utd job. Ask Everton fans what they thought of Smith and you'll get a realistic answer about his 'talents' Mate or not, are you saying Sir Alex was sentimental? This is the guy that got rid of ince, van Nistelrooy, Beckham, Stam, and countless other big names in their prime ... But anyways, my point isn't whether you'll find folk who dislike a player or manager; its that there's plenty out there who will appreciate their abilities... And some of them, maybe know a bit more than your average joe punter. Constructive criticism is fine, but seems that some folk have a pathological need to be negative, whilst glossing over valid counter arguments. Edited June 17, 2015 by stewarty 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoodyBlue 0 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Mate or not, are you saying Sir Alex was sentimental? This is the guy that got rid of ince, van Nistelrooy, Beckham, Stam, and countless other big names in their prime ... But anyways, my point isn't whether you'll find folk who dislike a player or manager; its that there's plenty out there who will appreciate their abilities... And some of them, maybe know a bit more than your average joe punter. Constructive criticism is fine, but seems that some folk have a pathological need to be negative, whilst glossing over valid counter arguments. I'm saying that Fergie was not perfect and made some mistakes. As far as Smith is concerned I've never really rated him particulalry high. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trublusince1982 243 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Mate or not, are you saying Sir Alex was sentimental? This is the guy that got rid of ince, van Nistelrooy, Beckham, Stam, and countless other big names in their prime ... But anyways, my point isn't whether you'll find folk who dislike a player or manager; its that there's plenty out there who will appreciate their abilities... And some of them, maybe know a bit more than your average joe punter. Constructive criticism is fine, but seems that some folk have a pathological need to be negative, whilst glossing over valid counter arguments. WS is arguably our most successful manager nobody can take that away from him or diminish how much he did for us. all i am trying to say is that ethos of just doing enough to win must die if we are to grow. I am sure those who take young kids to games will tell you the struggle it is becoming. With far more exciting and vibrant games on telly we face stiff competition nowadays. We need to evolve whilst keeping our core values,traditions and winning mentality at the forefront. I think this board hopefully understands that. The hiring of Warburton points in the right direction. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewarty 2,027 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 WS is arguably our most successful manager nobody can take that away from him or diminish how much he did for us. all i am trying to say is that ethos of just doing enough to win must die if we are to grow. I am sure those who take young kids to games will tell you the struggle it is becoming. With far more exciting and vibrant games on telly we face stiff competition nowadays. We need to evolve whilst keeping our core values,traditions and winning mentality at the forefront. I think this board hopefully understands that. The hiring of Warburton points in the right direction. Agreed. Sensible points. Smith's parking of the bus in 08 was undeniably effective and hard to watch at the same time. That won't take away memories of the Fiorentina penalty shoot out or the trip to Manchester for me. Acknlowedging these limitations, and those of mccoist isn't accepting poor quality, but it does mean we can start to move forward. Expectation levels will be one that I think warburton will have to realise are different. I think he knows that, but not everyone can handle it. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 not in the entertainment business. I thought we were talking about the "real world"? You might not have noticed but the entertainment business is not very related to the real world. It usually entertains us by faking everything. There is a difference between sport and entertainment which is easily epitomised by the defference between the Golden State Warriors and the Harlem Globe Trotters. When they turn football into entertainment, it will cease to be a "real" sport. Plus this isnt about a person but a commodity . The shinier the commodity while retaining its use the more attention it will demand. Sport not about attention, it's about winning and being as successful as possible. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 when all things are considered like expense and walters own words on winning being the only aim. Yes his ethos brought poorer football than the outlay could have achieved have said it before the run to the uefa cup were i went to every game, most of the football was awful to watch. Most games ended with "onwards and upwards but that was brutal "comments. When he was spending £22k a week on the likes of whittaker for right back he could have aimed for more exciting attributes in a right back but that wasnt the style he preferred. Walter has said it before himself winning at any cost was the goal. I just see that ethos as no longer viable in the long term if we want to grow. The same ethos now when up against the competition we face for youngsters attention will leave us diminishing year on year. Whittaker wasn't getting 22k a week on Walter's watch. His massive pay increase came from Whyte, which was the season McCoist took over. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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