Give Us The Tools And We'll Finish The Job

[Tannochsidebear 2,429]

It opens a good question about why players cant produce for Rangers, yet I think the style of football played in Scotland has a lot to do with it, but so does individual attitude.

 

You can throw in a few recent names like Kyle Hutton and Jamie Ness. Both were extremely promising but while Hutton is still at the club he went miles backwards and Ness who moved on doesn't seem to kick a ball anymore or does so in the lower tiers of England.

 

Advocaats squad had everything in his second year. Although we played a flat 4 in the middle it was mostly a 4-4-1-1. The midfielders and wide men were Tugay, Reyna, Albertz, Van Bronkhurst, Ferguson, McCann, Kanchelskis and Johansson (could play as a striker also) and it had everything in the midfield from good ball winners, graft, creativity, width and pace. That team was very near to something special. if De Boer had came a year earlier or even laudrup had stayed to play up with Mols then it would have been complete.

 

It is hard to think back to that second season squad of DA's and not cry when you see where we are now. That was the last season the football we played was worthy of our gallant pioneers.

[Rousseau 10,812]

Another well argued contribution mate but, while we may not have employed a midfield three, we have been using Murdoch, Law, Shiels and Vuckic of late and we're still struggling to create chances and score enough goals.

 

As such, while the system may not be perfect, I'd argue that it's the weaknesses of the players that are causing the main problem. Like you say, Law is talented enough but he completely lacks any sort of backbone so falls out of many games. Meanwhile, in attack, Miller and Clark will do a lot of running but both seem to struggle to affect games - the former especially has been poor and comes far too deep looking for possession.

 

Generally, I agree we need root and branch change but we lack the balance and quality required as it stands.

 

Our midfield 4 -- as you say -- is ineffectual because teams just match up and therefore, generally speaking, it's easy to defend against us.

 

I disagree that it is the players. If you look at them individually, they are decent. But the system does not play to their strengths. Law does lack backbone, but needs someone else centrally to work with. Murdoch is a DM, so he can't -- or shouldn't -- be helping out with the attack, except helping to keep the ball moving and supporting attacking players. Vuckic, I think everyone can see, is much better further up the park; to me he is a forward the plays wide because he like to come inside, but he is not a LM as such. Shiels is better centrally where he can instigate attacks.

 

Vuckic and Shiels can get isolated out wide. Because we can't dominate the central area -- because we get outnumbered -- we can't get the better attacking players into the game. Shiels is not a wide man, so the system fails him; Law doesn't get enough support, so the system fails him; Vuckic gets isolated and gets no support, so the system fails him; Miller is pointless coming deep, but he feels he has to because there is only two there, or one to attack, so the system again fails him. (I sound like a broken record...!)

 

It's like we want width or midfield control, when I think we need both: Dominate the midfield with Murdoch, Law and Shiels -- those three should be able to pass through most other midfield's in the league -- to allow the wide players to get into the danger areas where they can do damage. We did that with the 3-5-2, almost inadvertently; we dominated the middle, and had width. Even the diamond we played against Hearts achieved this. I don't understand why we've reverted to 4-4-2?

 

A 4-4-2 could work if we played proper wingers, with rampaging fullbacks, and left a central two back as support -- like Mancini at Man City; the wide men went about attacking, but the central players stayed back --, not leave Murdoch alone when Law tries to attack. Wallace goes forward on the left, but Shiels comes inside so we don't outnumber on the flanks; Vuckic attacks wide, but he has no attacking fullback as support, so again we don't outnumber. It's like we are trying to do too much without really achieving either.

 

The best managers in the world -- I'm thinking of Guardiola -- try to outnumber in a key area, depending on the team. The great Barcelona team seemed to be able to do both!

 

Soapbox over. Apologies, it turned into a bit of a rant!

 

Oh, incidentally, you keep getting my name wrong on the main site: it's "Rousseau", not "Rosseau". (Sorry...)

[Gribz 913]

Its stating the obvious but very true: Players make formations. Formations don't make players.

[Rousseau 10,812]

Watched Vfl Wolfsburg vs SCC Neapel (Napoli) last night and that was a demonstration of quick and accurate football (nearly) at its best. To play that style and game, you need the players, and quality players at that. You can sure attempt to breed them, but that takes time and "we" hardly ever give any manager the time to do so. This is where scouting would come into play, but a) we are just one of a few hundred teams in Europe looking for better players, b) who would come to us and c) this cannot be accomplished overnight either. And you obviously need a manager to play these systems.

 

Agreed, but I think a DoF should be appointed to produce these player, so it would not matter if a manager did not get the time; there'd be a long-term production line in place irrespective of manager -- or coach.

 

For us right now it is juggling with the options and players we have and try to get the best out of it. One of our best performances this season came against Hearts, where we played with 5 at the back, including the much maligned McCulloch and Mohsni. I would still vote for a three man defense with Mohsni slightly in front of McGregor and Zaliukas. Put Law, Crawford or Walsh in the right WINGback slot, Wallace on the left. For tomorrow I'd also advocate to replace either Miller or Clark with Hardie from the off. The lad has scored 20+ for the "developement team" this season! Maybe rest both, with Vuckic and Hardie replacing them, Templeton in a free role, with Murdoch and Shiels in the middle ...

 

Bell

 

McGregor - Mohsni - Zaliukas

 

Walsh/Law/Crawford - Murdoch - Shiels - Wallace

 

Templeton

 

Hardie - Vuckic

 

Mohsni gets license to go further up the park (not least if the opposition only has one striker to deal with), in which case Murdoch or someone else would drop back a little in times of need. Once we lose the ball, we go to a 5-3-2 or, if Mohsni is too far up the park, 4-4-2.

 

I like that a lot. The players seem to be playing in better positions, and at least we'd outnumber teams in the middle. Not sure about Templeton's ability in that role though. Perhaps, move Shiels into that free role, and play Law in the middle?

[der Berliner 3,803]

Regarding Miller,when he came back for his second spell, he was more a creating than a goalscoring striker, providig much ammunition for Boyd, who ruled the scoring charts. When Boyd jumped ship, Miller had his most prolific season as a striker.

 

2008/9 - 34 games, 10 goals, 13 assists

2009/10 - 45 games, 21 goals, 12 assists

 

He never really was a Boyd/McCoist/Negri type of predator and sure is not the quickest any longer. His desire and enthusiasm is still there and this season - overall - there are quite a number of players who should be dropped before him. The main problem he suffers these days from is that we have no decent enough fellow target man up front, someone Miller can play to/with. He is the running and creating type of chap, but if there is no-one in the box to aim at, much of his work is in vein. Clark is too similar to Miller, as he also is chasing the ball and going to the wings (akin to Little), leaving blank areas in the penalty area. Hence, I would not exactly mind having Miller in a attacking midfield role behind the main two strikers, as he sure is more attack-minded than most others and has quite a few tricks up his sleeve. So in my line-up above, I would use him as a sub for Templeton.

[ian1964 10,761]

Forgot about him Ian. He looks a good young player as well and I would be happy to see him get some game time also.

 

The poor return from our strikers this season means it wouldn't be much of a gamble to give one or both a decent try out

[Rousseau 10,812]

Its stating the obvious but very true: Players make formations. Formations don't make players.

 

Players make formations in the sense they're suited for them; but a formation can also ruin a player. De Bruyne (Spelling?) was average at Chelsea out wide, now look what he is doing centrally with Wolfsburg.

 

You do get these tales of very good squads that include very average players; it's because the player suits the formation and can contribute to a role, but will achieve little elsewhere. Bosingwa comes to mind: decent at Porto because he played a suitable role for him and the team to get a big-money move, but was absoloutely awful in the PL.

[Frankie 8,652]

Our midfield 4 -- as you say -- is ineffectual because teams just match up and therefore, generally speaking, it's easy to defend against us.

 

I disagree that it is the players. If you look at them individually, they are decent. But the system does not play to their strengths. Law does lack backbone, but needs someone else centrally to work with. Murdoch is a DM, so he can't -- or shouldn't -- be helping out with the attack, except helping to keep the ball moving and supporting attacking players. Vuckic, I think everyone can see, is much better further up the park; to me he is a forward the plays wide because he like to come inside, but he is not a LM as such. Shiels is better centrally where he can instigate attacks.

 

Vuckic and Shiels can get isolated out wide. Because we can't dominate the central area -- because we get outnumbered -- we can't get the better attacking players into the game. Shiels is not a wide man, so the system fails him; Law doesn't get enough support, so the system fails him; Vuckic gets isolated and gets no support, so the system fails him; Miller is pointless coming deep, but he feels he has to because there is only two there, or one to attack, so the system again fails him. (I sound like a broken record...!)

 

It's like we want width or midfield control, when I think we need both: Dominate the midfield with Murdoch, Law and Shiels -- those three should be able to pass through most other midfield's in the league -- to allow the wide players to get into the danger areas where they can do damage. We did that with the 3-5-2, almost inadvertently; we dominated the middle, and had width. Even the diamond we played against Hearts achieved this. I don't understand why we've reverted to 4-4-2?

 

A 4-4-2 could work if we played proper wingers, with rampaging fullbacks, and left a central two back as support -- like Mancini at Man City; the wide men went about attacking, but the central players stayed back --, not leave Murdoch alone when Law tries to attack. Wallace goes forward on the left, but Shiels comes inside so we don't outnumber on the flanks; Vuckic attacks wide, but he has no attacking fullback as support, so again we don't outnumber. It's like we are trying to do too much without really achieving either.

 

The best managers in the world -- I'm thinking of Guardiola -- try to outnumber in a key area, depending on the team. The great Barcelona team seemed to be able to do both!

 

Soapbox over. Apologies, it turned into a bit of a rant!

 

Oh, incidentally, you keep getting my name wrong on the main site: it's "Rousseau", not "Rosseau". (Sorry...)

 

Aye, I have done that a few times - apologies and should now be fixed!

 

Agree with the point we need five players in there - or at least better wide options to support the central playmakers. I think the main issue is playing with four at the back when we usually only need 3.

 

We just lack a balance throughout the team. Vuckic is anything but a right midfielder while Law also seems to suffer from being moved around.

 

Generally too many players seem unsure of their role or position.

 

I think the following system would be better.

 

_______________________Bell_________________________

____McGregor_______Zaliukas_______Wallace________

Crawford__Shiels___Murdoch____Law________Vukic

________Clark________________AN Other______________

Edited April 17, 2015 by Frankie

[Tannochsidebear 2,429]

I am not sure what games you are referring to Rousseau, but we have been playing with a midfield three for the last few games with Murdoch, Shiels and Law all playing in there. We have been playing without width and that has been a big part of the problem as QotS and Livvy both crammed the midfield and played very deep, giving us no space to work with. They hunted in packs and closed down very well, and in Livvy's case the terrible bumpy pitch helped them in this regard as it took a couple of touches to control the bobbling ball and by that time two players were on top of us.

 

The difference in shape has come from what defenders we are playing, along with who the fourth midfield player is and where they play. Jig/Zaliukas are both negative CB and therefore we dont get the ball moved quickly enough from the back, and neither can pass forward with any accuracy. Mohsni for all his defensive faults likes to play quickly and bring the ball into midfield giving us an extra man in there at times when we have possession, which has helped free Wallace and others find space. When we have played Temps he has been stuck wide and has been denied any real support and is usually closely marked as opponents know he is our out ball to create and mark accordingly, and in all honesty he has not played very well either, usually not helped by being put six foot in the air on a regular basis with the referee offering no protection.

[Rousseau 10,812]

The poor return from our strikers this season means it wouldn't be much of a gamble to give one or both a decent try out

 

Hardie, Gallagher sounds like a very promising front line for many years to come. Quite exciting really.