Absolutely essential we get the right manager in for next season

[Ser Barristan Selmy 222]

Just because someone is Scottish does not mean he cannot be a world class manager. I do admit though that Britain seemed to fall asleep to modern coaching methods. I did not want the manager replaced to be honest as I wanted the board to take their time making a choice on who it is to be. That was mostly as I didn't really think anyone would put their reputation on the line for 6 weeks work. I was wrong and McCall has improved things. McCall would not have been my choice for a long term manager but I think it is unfair to judge anyone on one bad game. I would prefer a foreign coach for the simple reason I think they are more into a good youth policy than British managers.

In saying that the first signing Gio van Bronkhorst has made is Dirk Kuijt on a 2 year contract at 34 year old. That is crazy for me as Feynoord have the best Youth system in Holland. They could pay 5 youths for the money Kuijt will be on.

 

Gio has made Jan Wouters his assistant bye the way. I would imagine he worked under him at Ibrox. Jan seems to be a good assistant but not rated as a manager.

Well technically McCall is English, not Scottish but I agree that nationality is irrelevant. What's relevant is the ability and knowledge of the person and which level they have experience in. If McCall had been successful in England for example, I wouldn't have any concerns.

[calscot 0]

We should be getting a long term manager in now.

 

Yes and there's probably plenty of fat, skint, badly dressed guys with a bad rep that feel they should be getting a beautiful, long term girlfriend now. You seemed to have skipped the point of my post.

 

Some might want Mourinho in (actually, you're about the only one here who wouldn't) but the reality factor says that he's not going to fancy us.

 

Someone who can build his own team, instill his own philosophy and help overhaul the archaic infrastructure at the club, from an on the pitch perspective. Looking at a short term appointment just to get us through another season won't get us anywhere long term. For once we need to be thinking where we are in 5 years, not just where we are at the end of the current season.

 

We tried that with a view to three years, the guy lasted 6 montths.

 

It should be someone with a modern, progressive approach to football. Not someone whose main experience is coaching/managing in Scotland, with very little knowledge of the far more advanced continental methods.

 

Ah, the foreign is exotic is better meme. You would think a Scottish manager had never beaten a continental one... Poor Man Utd, stuck with an manager on previously experienced in Scotland for so long.

 

I'm not saying that there aren't better continental coaches than Scottish bases ones but you are comparing a population of about 700 million to 5 million. There's bound to be loads... But weirdly, Scotland does have a good reputation for producing managers, with a poor one for footballers.

 

I also think we need a foreign coach but the reason is that I can't see much in the current generation where we've had a huge talent drain due to bugger all money in the game. I would also rather choose the best choice from the 740m Europeans (including Scots) rather than restrict it to 5m.

[Rousseau 10,640]

McCall was not my first choice but I have been pleasantly surprised.

 

The main question for me is whether he would work with a DoF? If he can, then allow the DoF to rebuild infrastructure and let McCall have a go at team affairs for the next few years; see how it goes. If he can't, then get someone else in; someone modern, technical, and progressive.

 

I think we need a DoF.

 

To take the middle ground in this thread, I think Cathro would be good. Young, modern, progressive coach based very much on the continental style, but he is Scottish. Simples!

 

And I do agree that we should be aiming higher than a run-of-the-mill Scottish manager; they are too old-fashioned; times have changed.

[Crimson Dynamo 128]

We should be getting a long term manager in now. Someone who can build his own team, instill his own philosophy and help overhaul the archaic infrastructure at the club, from an on the pitch perspective. Looking at a short term appointment just to get us through another season won't get us anywhere long term. For once we need to be thinking where we are in 5 years, not just where we are at the end of the current season.

 

It should be someone with a modern, progressive approach to football. Not someone whose main experience is coaching/managing in Scotland, with very little knowledge of the far more advanced continental methods.

 

Agree mate it's completely off topic but IMO what happened with Le Guen set us back years in terms of coaching/development tactics and our overall footballing philosophy we have have hobbled along ever since.

[Oleg_Mcnoleg 50]

We should be getting a long term manager in now. Someone who can build his own team, instill his own philosophy and help overhaul the archaic infrastructure at the club, from an on the pitch perspective. Looking at a short term appointment just to get us through another season won't get us anywhere long term. For once we need to be thinking where we are in 5 years, not just where we are at the end of the current season.

 

It should be someone with a modern, progressive approach to football. Not someone whose main experience is coaching/managing in Scotland, with very little knowledge of the far more advanced continental methods.

We all want that, of course. But an awful lot of that wouldn't be up to the manager IMHO. In spite of last night, McCall may or may not be an ok appointment to work with the first team for the next year or two. But I don't expect him to be the one overhauling the club root and branch.

[Ser Barristan Selmy 222]

We all want that, of course. But an awful lot of that wouldn't be up to the manager IMHO. In spite of last night, McCall may or may not be an ok appointment to work with the first team for the next year or two. But I don't expect him to be the one overhauling the club root and branch.

A manager, or head coach as King talked about, is certainly a large part of the solution. Someone like Cathro would be an excellent option, if he would be interested. Someone who could really radicalise our philosophy and work hard on youth development, integrating them into the team whenever they are ready.

[Ser Barristan Selmy 222]

Yes and there's probably plenty of fat, skint, badly dressed guys with a bad rep that feel they should be getting a beautiful, long term girlfriend now. You seemed to have skipped the point of my post.

 

Some might want Mourinho in (actually, you're about the only one here who wouldn't) but the reality factor says that he's not going to fancy us.

I answered your post. If we are in the SPL next season and can offer anything like what McCoist was earning, I'm sure opening the position up to applicants would get some interesting options.

 

 

 

We tried that with a view to three years, the guy lasted 6 montths.

So therefore we never try again?

 

 

Ah, the foreign is exotic is better meme. You would think a Scottish manager had never beaten a continental one... Poor Man Utd, stuck with an manager on previously experienced in Scotland for so long.

 

I'm not saying that there aren't better continental coaches than Scottish bases ones but you are comparing a population of about 700 million to 5 million. There's bound to be loads... But weirdly, Scotland does have a good reputation for producing managers, with a poor one for footballers.

 

I also think we need a foreign coach but the reason is that I can't see much in the current generation where we've had a huge talent drain due to bugger all money in the game. I would also rather choose the best choice from the 740m Europeans (including Scots) rather than restrict it to 5m.

My issue is not the nationality as I couldn't care less about that, but the level of experience and where it is attained. Alex Ferguson had won a European trophy. McCall just has experience of playing at poor levels and getting dumped out of the first rounds of Europe.

[calscot 0]

I answered your post.

 

Actually you didn't. You just repeated yourself without any qualification with relevance to my post.

 

If we are in the SPL next season and can offer anything like what McCoist was earning, I'm sure opening the position up to applicants would get some interesting options.

 

That seems to be aiming a lot lower than you seemed to be hinting at in your earlier posts.

 

 

So therefore we never try again?

 

Again you missing the point by being simplistic, when ironically the point is that it's not so simplistic. Just being a reknowned foreign manager doesn't automatically make a good fit. Just because one failed doesn't mean we shouldn't try another one. The point is that it's quite complex and thus there are far more important criteria than whether someone was based on the continent. For example, is an Albanian automatically better? PLG showed you can tick all the boxes and still not guarantee anything.

 

My issue is not the nationality as I couldn't care less about that, but the level of experience and where it is attained. Alex Ferguson had won a European trophy. McCall just has experience of playing at poor levels and getting dumped out of the first rounds of Europe.

 

More relevant to us, Aberdeen took Ferguson, a Scottish based manager, on with no European experience and then won the league and European trophy with two Old Firm rivals. There are no simple rules, it should be about getting the best guy for the job, no matter where he's from. Demonstrating previous European success is something would be desireable though - but as my point says, if that's the case would they be interested in us right now?

 

There are too many clubs with more money than us, in far better leagues, for us to compete as a recovering club just stepping back into the top tier of a footballing country that's in the dolldrums.

 

I think it's obvious that if we try too early, we won't likely get the best possible candidate.

Edited April 10, 2015 by calscot

[JohnMc 2,759]

Has a non British manager ever been successful in Scotland? Advocaat had a level of success certainly, but he had a significantly bigger budget than all the rest at first and when Celtic started to compete financially under O'Neil he struggled. Wim Janson won the league with the Tims but he still only lasted one season and we'd imploded half way through which really helped him, Hearts won a cup with someone or other from abroad in charge but the Scottish national side, Motherwell, Dundee Utd, Aberdeen, Dundee, Hibs, Rangers and Celtic have all tried 'foreign' managers with really poor results.

 

Picking who'll make a good manager is nigh on impossible, particularly for supporters who don't actually see the personalities and dynamics up close. If you looked at the playing career of Jock Stein or Jock Wallace you'd never have picked them to have the later success they did. Who thought Robbie Neilson was going to be a good coach?

 

First and foremost our club has to win in Scotland and that puts certain restrictions on us. Secondly I think we've a duty as a club to look to have a side that represents the support and that means finding the best players and managers from here and building the team that way. Sure supplement that with outside influence but all football clubs should represent their support.

 

There are managers who are doing well with the resources they've got. Murray at Dumbarton and Fowler at QOTS spring to mind, both those clubs are over-achieving currently and when you see how Alex Neill did with Hamilton and now Norwich you can see the our current league can develop managers. Finding someone with a pedigree is nigh on impossible, we're simply not in that market just now, finding someone with potential is much more realistic. Over to you Dave.

Edited April 10, 2015 by JohnMc

[Ser Barristan Selmy 222]

Actually you didn't. You just repeated yourself without any qualification with relevance to my post.

No, I answered your post.

 

That seems to be aiming a lot lower than you seemed to be hinting at in your earlier posts.

How?

 

 

 

Again you missing the point by being simplistic, when ironically the point is that it's not so simplistic. Just being a reknowned foreign manager doesn't automatically make a good fit. Just because one failed doesn't mean we shouldn't try another one. The point is that it's quite complex and thus there are far more important criteria than whether someone was based on the continent. For example, is an Albanian automatically better? PLG showed you can tick all the boxes and still not guarantee anything.

As I said in my post, nationality is irrelevant, what is relevant is the level of football the candidate has experience in. How successful they have been there.

 

More relevant to us, Aberdeen took Ferguson, a Scottish based manager, on with no European experience and then won the league and European trophy with two Old Firm rivals. There are no simple rules, it should be about getting the best guy for the job, no matter where he's from. Demonstrating previous European success is something would be desireable though - but as my point says, if that's the case would they be interested in us right now?

 

There are too many clubs with more money than us, in far better leagues, for us to compete as a recovering club just stepping back into the top tier of a footballing country that's in the dolldrums.

 

I think it's obvious that if we try too early, we won't likely get the best possible candidate.

Ferguson took charge at Aberdeen almost 40 years ago when Scottish football was very different, so this has limited significance now. Aberdeen also were not expected to be winning the league every season. However, he took St Mirren from near the bottom of the second division to the top tier in a short space of time. He did this with a young team and was clearly a high flyer. McCall left Motherwell second bottom.

 

As for too many teams, there's lots of good managers too. McCoist was earning more than some English Premiership managers. Our next manager will likely be earning much more than a lot of Europa League managers so there's no reason we couldn't have that level.

Edited April 10, 2015 by Ser Barristan Selmy