Well done to SoS/RST/UoF and all of us who made it happen

[BrahimHemdani 1]

in how they should act now.

 

To whom are you referring: Nazi war criminals (who mostly said they were acting under orders), folk who agree with STB or the the Israeli Secret Service?

 

Your analogy was way over the top and you should withdraw it.

[the gunslinger 3,366]

demanding bans for people trying to save the club was way over the top. i am sure he will live.

[simplythebest 0]

Funnily enough I've withdrawn that on here today, this is the third time I'm doing it.

[BrahimHemdani 1]

demanding bans for people trying to save the club was way over the top. i am sure he will live.

 

Not if the Mosad get him.

[BrahimHemdani 1]

Funnily enough I've withdrawn that on here today, this is the third time I'm doing it.

 

Hopefully GS will call off the dogs then.

[simplythebest 0]

Hopefully GS will call off the dogs then.

Out of interest this heat of the moment comment was actually made on my own FB page, not even on a forum Edited March 4, 2015 by simplythebest

[Ser Barristan Selmy 222]

Out of interest this heat of the moment comment was actually made on my own FB page, not even on a forum

Do you not get tired of following the crowd?

[Frankie 8,665]

 

I don't mind being addressed directly you know Frankie. Reason people will use different language on here is because they will be following the rules set out for this forum, I'd assume that's what you want. I have personal reasons for disliking some individuals without it necessarily being related to protests against the regime.

 

I don't have a problem with people being given credit if it's balanced because I believe every single Rangers fan deserves credit. We've all been through hell these last few years, we've all thought and done what we believe is best for the club, we've all in our own way kept the club alive because our future has been at great risk, and we've all said enough is enough the last few weeks. What I'm uncomfortable with is over the top praise for some sections which seems like a subtle way of saying some are much better than others. All 'sides' can be accused of that so I'm not having a go at anyone in particular or claiming to be an angel myself, but we can't go on in perpetual factions and calling out each other for this and that, ultimately football fans are meant to have the main purpose of supporting the team together.

 

My point in this thread is that the board have largely hung themselves, certainly in the more recent months anyway. It didn't take a secret reveal to show what a farce Somers made of the AGM, it didn't take a secret reveal for the fans to unite in outrage against Ibrox nearly being mortgaged because the board themselves announced that, it didn't take a secret reveal to show that PR has been non-existent and the likes of Llambias haven't even been trying to win over the support, it didn't take a secret reveal to show that Ashley hasn't even attempted to speak out and express any sort of future plans for the club, it didn't take a secret reveal for people to know Llambias and Leach were Ashley's men even when it was being officially denied they were. We could go on, but I'm actually trying to credit our support with intelligence and I don't see any conceivable way this board were going to last, since Wallace and Nash went it's been one disaster after another. One thing you can say about Green is that he at least attempted to win people over however insincere it may have been, there's been nothing like that lately. By all means we can give the groups credit but I've no doubt many have reached their own conclusions regardless and we all have a key role to play going forward.

 

While there is scepticism of Kingco out there I don't think I've come across a Rangers fan anywhere including online the last few weeks who thinks that we've got a better future with the present regime.

 

You weren't the only person I was addressing - if I was I would've quoted you. Clearly the cap fits though...

 

First of all, we do have different rules on here and I'm very proud of them. A cursory look at other forums - especially the likes of RM - make me embarrassed to be a bear at times. I'm stunned they allow the type of regular abuse that helps no-one - abuse you seem happy to, not only tolerate, but take an active part in. Retracting is fine and I'm glad the penny has finally dropped but, quite frankly, you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

I think the credit given to the fan groups and the individual people you clearly detest has been largely fair. Yes, a few people may have went OTT with respect to the praise but it's interesting how you're prepared to talk about that but not of the personal threats and abuse handed to them which have been much more widespread and regular. Those that take part in such crap or indulge it are a disgrace. Balance indeed.

 

Of course this still doesn't make Graham or Houston or any other board critic better than anyone else. I don't see anyone suggesting as such - all I see is disappointment in that our fellow fans would rather turn on each other instead of focussing on those who have put out club's future under threat. Yes, we may not all have agreed with boycotts but when we see how folk were lied to - particularly when it comes to buying merchandise - then it's no wonder so many fans said enough is enough. And I'm glad they did as, make no mistake, if we hadn't then our money would still be going elsewhere rather than for the betterment of our club. Unfortunately, as long as these various onerous contracts remain in place, it may remain the case that most of our cash doesn't go to Rangers but Sports Direct. Is that fair? Is that positive? Is that worth backing Mike Ashley? Incredibly, we still have people suggesting it is more agreeable than putting a selection of Rangers fans in charge.

 

Moving on, you are right that ultimately the board have caused their own downfall and I wouldn't disagree with the selection of examples you highlighted in that respect. However, where your argument falls down is that before these examples there were many more and the spine of the boardroom - or at least the decision-making process - has remained the same since 2012 where early on people were questioning the intentions of Green who was brought in at the last minute via the back door. Throughout that three years of exposure by the same fans you're happy to abuse, it's become gradually clear to most people of intelligence (as you put it) that the intentions of a long line of people were not in the interests of the club. It may have taken you until January of this year to recognise that but the lack of trust has been present for a damn sight longer for those of us in receipt of the lawyers letters and threats. I'd argue that when directors are posting secretly on abusive forums, PR companies employing people to do the same including writing blogs filled with blatant propaganda while attempting to stifle open debate with the majority of fans then it's clear that we had a regime not interested in transparency or debate but merely spin and control. It was also clear that some fans - a small minority thankfully - preferred to concentrate on personal fall outs than what was staring them in the face for a very long time. Bizarrely, these people still exist - can we take them seriously again?

 

I could probably go on all day showing the various examples that should have had every Rangers fan sitting up instead of covering their eyes and ears and insulting each other. However, where you are right is in saying 'I told you so' won't get us anywhere fast. Indeed, I don't particularly care that some fans were late to the table just that they're at the table and now appreciate how dangerous the situation is. Thankfully - even including the minorities on the likes of RM and VB - a huge majority of bears now want change and as much as some fans want to underplay supporter influence we've never been in a better position to ensure our voice is heard. Like you, I remain sceptical of King and I'll be cynical about any future owner of the club. That may be fair or it may be daft but any true Rangers fan (or someone who is prepared to say they understand us) will recognise that the events of 2011 to 2015 will mean natural suspicion of any future custodian.

 

This should never have been about taking sides but for some fans - online at least - it was and that's been the tragedy of recent years. It's not about backing King 100% or criticising the incumbents 100% but having an open mind and examining every issue on it's own merits as well as general trends. If we're take anything out of this disastrous period, then it should be that. We've had enough lessons on the subject so we should all be experts now.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Frankie

[Ser Barristan Selmy 222]

Interesting point about the paid for MH plants. I don't recall any condemnation from STB et al. Quite a bizarre situation where you have people paid to act against our interests being favoured.

[Frankie 8,665]

Interesting point about the paid for MH plants. I don't recall any condemnation from STB et al. Quite a bizarre situation where you have people paid to act against our interests being favoured.

 

Ultimately, for some of the more vocal critics on RM and VB it came down to the involvement (perceived or otherwise) of Mark Dingwall and the people he's supposed to be controlling. Unfortunately, while these critics are few in number they're noisy and often help form opinions of the more weak-willed among us. That's what the PR companies took advantage of - along with any other uncertainty. McMurdo, Ahmad and 'Bawsburst' built the doubt then cemented the existing division. Many were all too eager to buy into the charade - a few deliberately, some because they were unwilling to see the danger.

 

Let me be clear - I'm not a fan of Mark and never will be - however, it would be ludicrous to put my personal feelings over one person above what is happening at the club we both love. The same goes for any other fan rep/group: of course we should question, criticise and hold to account but we've truly jumped the shark when we urge lynchings for them but defend the likes of Ahmad, Stockbridge and Easdale.

 

It's no coincidence the same people who defended them are comfortable with Llambias and Leach and/or against the likes of King and Murray. Such folk are completely discredited - even if they lack the self-awareness to see that themselves. No matter, the rest of us (>90%) will move on without them.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Frankie