Leckie: Stop giving to Ibrox, start following your local team!

[Hildy 0]

An Atlantic League could be set up in a way that is linked to domestic leagues. Hearts and Dundee United could play their way in if it was designed to benefit slightly lower ranked teams as well as the bigger ones.

 

This would benefit Scottish football.

 

Rangers and Celtic, as the two leading clubs, and with a common interest, should be working together - and it needs to happen sooner rather than later.

 

The RST wants fan ownership. No-one else does. It's about everyone getting involved - not just RST members. The RST wants fans to have a say in who governs the club. This is a major advance on the God-forsaken state that we have to contend with currently.

 

We have to endeavour to advance the club instead of clinging to meaningless mantras that only serve to give people a false sense of security.

[Super Cooper 0]

I don 't think Scottish football see us as a leading club.

[barca72 440]

An Atlantic League could be set up in a way that is linked to domestic leagues. Hearts and Dundee United could play their way in if it was designed to benefit slightly lower ranked teams as well as the bigger ones.

 

This would benefit Scottish football.

 

Rangers and Celtic, as the two leading clubs, and with a common interest, should be working together - and it needs to happen sooner rather than later.

 

The RST wants fan ownership. No-one else does. It's about everyone getting involved - not just RST members. The RST wants fans to have a say in who governs the club. This is a major advance on the God-forsaken state that we have to contend with currently.

 

We have to endeavour to advance the club instead of clinging to meaningless mantras that only serve to give people a false sense of security.

 

Who trusts the RST ?

[barca72 440]

An Atlantic League could be set up in a way that is linked to domestic leagues. Hearts and Dundee United could play their way in if it was designed to benefit slightly lower ranked teams as well as the bigger ones.

 

This would benefit Scottish football.

 

Rangers and Celtic, as the two leading clubs, and with a common interest, should be working together - and it needs to happen sooner rather than later.

 

The RST wants fan ownership. No-one else does. It's about everyone getting involved - not just RST members. The RST wants fans to have a say in who governs the club. This is a major advance on the God-forsaken state that we have to contend with currently.

 

We have to endeavour to advance the club instead of clinging to meaningless mantras that only serve to give people a false sense of security.

 

I have to say I don't fancy the idea of an Atlantic league.

For one thing it would be hard for the support to follow their team. You can get 4 or 5 punters in a car to drive to Edinburgh or Dundee etc., but how do you get them to jump on a plane in their thousands. If the support can't travel that leaves them to watch the game on tv.

Now we see the huge amount of difference in tv money between the CL and the EL, ask C1888c about that, so what would the money be like for an Atlantic league with even less pull than the EL. There again the fans would have to buy another tv package

You say you want Rangers and C1888c and perhaps Hearts and Dun. Utd. in this league and that this would benefit Scottish football, but we have 42 teams - where is their benefit if you take the big teams away from them? Are you advocating that this link to the domestic leagues is like a kind of part-time thing whereby the teams in the Atlantic league would play half a season in their own leagues?

By the way are English teams linked into this league? Even the Championship down there gets better tv money than Scotland does as far as we know, since no one knows the terms of our tv contract.

I'm all for Rangers and C1888c working together for the good of Scottish football but I fancy that is a long way off. You talk about meaningless mantras, maybe you could expand on that a little.

[Hildy 0]

If a new Atlantic League was linked to domestic leagues, theoretically, every club in the league could qualify so rewards would be high for those that made it.

 

An Atlantic League could become a top league if it had Dutch, Belgian, Portuguese and Scandinavian opposition etc. and potentially, it could become more lucrative than, for example, the French League. It might even be awarded three or four places in the CL.

 

Travel would be harder, but is that really such a problem? Going to Amsterdam, Lisbon and Bruges would be better trips than Alloa, Livingston and Brechin - or Pittodrie, Tynecastle and Tannadice. Doing three expensive trips might be more attractive to many than doing seven or eight domestic ones.

 

The club can't allow itself to be held back by away fans who are actually a small percentage of the fanbase. If the vast majority of fans want it, and there is agreement that it is going to happen, Rangers can't afford not to be there.

 

Fans will adapt and find ways to maximise attendance at away games. Clubs will adapt too. I could see Rangers and Celtic working on a deal with airline companies.

 

Meaningless mantras? We are the people. Can you explain it to me? What is it supposed to mean? People have droned on for years about how bad thing could never happen to Rangers because 'we are the people'.

 

Worryingly, some people believed it.

[RANGERRAB 3,653]

I don 't think Scottish football see us as a leading club.

 

No they see us as a cash cow whom they think will subsidise them

[barca72 440]

If a new Atlantic League was linked to domestic leagues, theoretically, every club in the league could qualify so rewards would be high for those that made it.

 

An Atlantic League could become a top league if it had Dutch, Belgian, Portuguese and Scandinavian opposition etc. and potentially, it could become more lucrative than, for example, the French League. It might even be awarded three or four places in the CL.

 

Travel would be harder, but is that really such a problem? Going to Amsterdam, Lisbon and Bruges would be better trips than Alloa, Livingston and Brechin - or Pittodrie, Tynecastle and Tannadice. Doing three expensive trips might be more attractive to many than doing seven or eight domestic ones.

 

The club can't allow itself to be held back by away fans who are actually a small percentage of the fanbase. If the vast majority of fans want it, and there is agreement that it is going to happen, Rangers can't afford not to be there.

 

Fans will adapt and find ways to maximise attendance at away games. Clubs will adapt too. I could see Rangers and Celtic working on a deal with airline companies.

 

Meaningless mantras? We are the people. Can you explain it to me? What is it supposed to mean? People have droned on for years about how bad thing could never happen to Rangers because 'we are the people'.

 

Worryingly, some people believed it.

 

See the two areas I'm concerned about is fan participation and tv money. You talked earlier about the state of Scottish football, and to me the only thing that is going to help that is getting bums on seats, in the absence of tv money. I think that the best fan is an enthusiastic fan and to get an enthusiastic fan you want him (her) to go to as many games as possible. If you cut his ability to go to away games you are cutting his participation with the team. We all know that being at the stadium, feeling it, participating in the excitement is vastly more satisfying than watching on tv.

The other thing is the tv market. What countries, 6 maybe 8, would participate? They would mostly be second rate comparing CL status. Then you have to compete for the rest of Europe as a market. How do you get the sponsors. Most of the countries mooted are as poor as ourselves in that respect. Apart from Rangers and C1888c, what other team from these countries would have a global support that would be interested in picking up the games. For UEFA to sanction this it would mean that they would be putting another product in direct competition with what is there at the moment. The CL probably wouldn't be affected but the other countries that have teams in the EL would probably not be best pleased. There again can you see somebody in Italy, Croatia, Spain etc. being interested in watching a game between Dun. Utd and Malmo? I would say that for a while at least we have to stick with Dumfries to Elgin.

Maybe it is time for the men who have buried Scottish football - mainly Lawwell, Regan & Doncaster to start thinking out of the box and find a way to regenerate Scottish football. Of course a good start would be to welcome Rangers back into the fold, as a leader.

Mantras are only a means of engaging fan participation. All of them just allow fans to be enthusiastic about their game-day experience. Even in the east end. I don't believe that you seriously blame the people venting their chants for what happened to Rangers. No one could have seen that coming.

I don't think anyone believes that Rangers are invulnerable any more.

[ranger_syntax 4,314]

Look around you at today's youngsters. Some follow Barcelona as avidly as their pals follow Rangers and Celtic, and this trend has no limit to its growth.

 

No they don't.

[ranger_syntax 4,314]

Is it right to facilitate the diminutive columnist's trolling by posting it here?

[Hildy 0]

Here's how Walter Smith saw it in 2009:

 

In his first trophy-laden spell as manager of Rangers during a halcyon era for the Ibrox club in the 1990s, Walter Smith scoured the world for the very best players available to him.

 

Most memorably, Smith managed to convince talents as sought-after as Paul Gascoigne and Brian Laudrup to move to Scotland and help maintain his side’s domestic dominance as well as spearhead their forays into Europe.

 

Considering that background, it is not surprising he is increasingly despondent about the current impoverished state of our game and firmly in favour of a drastic change which would arrest its alarming decline.

 

Renewed speculation about the prospect of the leading clubs in Europe’s smaller football nations forming a North Atlantic Super League this week has been met with a roll of the eyes and weary sigh by most seasoned observers.

 

Such plans have, of course, been talked about many, many times before in the past and have always amounted to precisely diddly squat.

 

Yet Smith, whose only summer signing was the late addition of Jerome Rothen on loan, despite Rangers winning the Clydesdale Bank Premier League and Homecoming Scottish Cup last season, feels the need for such a breakaway has never been more pressing.

 

The respected elder statesman of the Scottish game has witnessed first hand how the rich have grown richer and the poor have become poorer in European football during his second stint in charge of the Glasgow club.

 

He believes that joining forces with clubs from the likes of Belgium, Holland, Portugal and Scandinavia is not only a feasible concept, it is now absolutely necessary in the current difficult economic climate.

 

“Less than 20 years ago, it was possible for us to go and compete financially with English Premier League teams,” Smith recalled. “Now it is impossible for us. That will only continue unless there is change.

 

“Look at the number of our players who are going to play in the Coca-Cola Championship because Scottish teams can’t afford to keep them here. That again is a measure of a steady financial decline. The Championship teams are able to pay more money than the Scottish teams.

 

“Scottish football will always be there. But in what state? There has been a gradual decline. We can’t compete with other teams in Europe now. Championship teams are taking our players now. I believe they have around 60 of them.

 

“If we don’t keep a high profile, with a heightened European presence or something else, then we are in danger of being dragged down. People must see that there is a decline. Unless something happens to arrest that decline then it will continue.”

 

Smith continued: “It is not just Rangers and Celtic, it is bigger clubs all over Europe. I think the first adjustment must be to these bigger clubs in the smaller countries. They are unable to gain a level of finance which will allow them to be competitive.

 

“Two years ago we went to play Red Star Belgrade in a Champions League qualifier. They have an average gate of below 10,000 and yet they get 75,000 people for a local derby and for European games. That is a huge disparity for any club.

 

“It forced them into a situation where they signed three players for €15m. Then, when they failed to qualify for the Champions League group stages, they immediately sold them. That is the financial situation clubs are being put in.

 

“Football over the last 10 or 15 years has become dominated by finance. In Scotland, it is Rangers and Celtic, but in every other country it is the same teams who are dominating. Look at England and the rise of Manchester City. They are not going to compete with the top four clubs unless they spend the money they have.”

 

Smith also maintains that joining forces with the top clubs from nations outwith the traditional football superpowers of England, Germany, Italy and Spain is a better plan than joining the Barclays Premier League down south.

 

“This [the North Atlantic Super League] is more realistic than joining the English Premier League,” he agreed. “Teams in England are not going to vote for two clubs to join which are going to be bigger than the majority of them are.”

 

Unlike many senior figures in the Scottish game, Smith has no fears for the wellbeing of the clubs Celtic and Rangers would leave behind in the SPL if they did move on to help form a new league.

 

In fact, he is adamant that other clubs having an increased chance of winning the national title for the first time since Aberdeen back in 1985 would result in vastly increased gates and general renewed interest.

 

He also stressed that entry to the new competition would be open to the winners of the SPL, not just the Old Firm clubs, and would be an enormous added incentive for them to succeed.

 

“The team which wins the league should have the opportunity to get into that league playing off against the teams which are already in it,” he explained. “If, for example, Aberdeen win the title, and can meet the criteria for a European league, then they should play-off for the chance to be a part of it. There would be benefits for the whole of Scottish football.”

 

Nor does Smith envisage Rangers or Celtic abandoning Scottish football altogether. He reckons reserve or even youth teams representing the Ibrox and Parkhead clubs could still compete in the Scottish domestic leagues.

 

“Rangers and Celtic would still field teams in Scotland even if they left to join a European league. They might have to start at the bottom division and work their way up again. But they will always have a presence in Scottish football.”