League Cup Draw : Falkirk v Rangers/ICT (plus seeding talk)

[calscot 0]

If something similar had happened to Celtic, we'd have been making accusations about how corrupt and pro-Celtic the authorities are.

 

I really doubt it for all the reasons I have given. You don't complain when a rival is given a more level playing field unless there is something wrong with you.

[Rangersitis 0]

You always have to be vigilant that your processes are working as they should and beneficial to your goals. You don't keep processes the same for the sake of it when they are clearly no longer suitable. It's about good management which also pretty much common sense. Sporting integrity would demand it.

 

When they see that their seeding system is clearly no longer appropriate - in a big way, then yes, they should obviously change it. Even an adjustment by committee giving proper justification would do - as I said in a previous post, the only club to have a complaint that wouldn't be like cutting off their nose to spite their face, would be Celtic as they would expect to give us a doing while we are under strength and are probably looking forward to doing so.

 

Other, sporting bodies do this as it just makes sense. Scottish football, however, is obviously broken by jealousy and hate.

 

Ok, so what criteria would be used to artificially promote/demote clubs in the rankings?

 

How long would they be in effect for?

 

Who would make these decisions, and would there be any right of appeal for clubs who suffered as a result of this gerrymandering?

[buster. 5,257]

When they see that their seeding system is clearly no longer appropriate - in a big way, then yes, they should obviously change it. Even an adjustment by committee giving proper justification would do - as I said in a previous post, the only club to have a complaint that wouldn't be like cutting off their nose to spite their face, would be Celtic as they would expect to give us a doing while we are under strength and are probably looking forward to doing so.

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The perceived unfairness you point to regards Rangers seeding/ this years League Cup draw is hypocritical and IMO balderdash.

 

We are where we are and we could not reasonably ask for a change to the rules because we think we are a bigger and better team than many of those seeded higher. Such a move would be received badly in any football community, not only Scotland and rightly so.

 

As it happens, we have provisionally benefitted from circumstance in the draw that saw the winners of our tie with ICT paired with Falkirk (lower half of seeds).

 

I believe that seeding isn't used in the League Cup for the Q/F onwards.

[calscot 0]

The perceived unfairness you point to regards Rangers seeding/ this years League Cup draw is hypocritical and IMO balderdash.

 

I think you're just seeing it in too narrow a focus. I've pretty much explained it in general terms, nothing to do with Rangers, and I really need the hypocritical part explained. I would feel the same if it were Celtic or any other team. It's all about the integrity of the seeding.

 

We are where we are and we could not reasonably ask for a change to the rules because we think we are a bigger and better team than many of those seeded higher.

 

I have no idea where this is relevant to anything I said. I don't think we should ask for anything like that as, although what we would be asking for is entirely fair and would reinforce the integrity of the competition, it doesn't look good when you seem to be asking for an easier passage - even though it would be correct amount of ease and benefit everyone. It can be difficult to ask people to change rules when you would be a beneficiary.

 

The point I am making is that those in charge of the competition should have changed it for the sake of their competition and all member clubs not specifically for Rangers.

 

Such a move would be received badly in any football community, not only Scotland and rightly so.

 

I think it would only be in Scotland and wrongly so. I still don't think you understand my points about what seeding is for. This is about fundamentals, not Rangers or Scotland.

 

As it happens, we have provisionally benefitted from circumstance in the draw that saw the winners of our tie with ICT paired with Falkirk (lower half of seeds).

 

We may only benefit by inheriting a seeding that is appropriate to our chances of progression in the tournament. I can't see how that is bad thing. A quick test of how appropriate it is, is whether we beat the current top team in the country to inherit it.

 

 

I believe that seeding isn't used in the League Cup for the Q/F onwards.

 

Once you get to a quarterfinal of a competition, seeding should become pretty irrelevant when you apply appropriate seeding earlier, as the best teams should have arrived there on merit. When you skew your seedings then that becomes untrue. It is probable that both ICT and Rangers are two of the top 8 sides in the competition, they should therefore not be eliminating each other at an early stage which could result in a lesser team winning in 1/8 of the draw and one quarterfinalist having an easier draw that the rest.

 

But another point that is being missed is that you can't win the competition because of some notion of favourable seeding as you still have to beat the best performing sides in the latter stages. All that a higher seeding does is allow you the chance to progress to the natural stage of your ability.

 

I shouldn't have to explain it but an obvious example is the second best team being put out by the best in the first round. Now while that team can never claim to have had the ability to win the competition - as they lost, they can complain that going out in the first round does not reflect their ability, and given a proper seeding they had a reasonable chance of making it to the final.

 

If you lose to a lower seeded team then that's just part of the cup and you obviously deserve to not progress.

 

Again the point is not just about Rangers, if we beat ICT, they could feel very aggrieved that they were put out so early due to a bad draw with bad seeding. You might point to us getting Falkirk but surely ICT did not deserve us a round earlier. Ironically you're own argument is slightly tainted by the fact that Falkirk are seeded well above us and therefore not normally much of an advantage.

 

Your whole argument is circular in that Rangers can only get an easier draw by not being the level of a 23rd seeded team. Normally you'd expect that team to be defeated by a top tier club at the top of the league and if not then defeated by the likes of Falkirk. There would be very little speculation about the club winning the trophy. The complaint actually REQUIRES Rangers to be wrongly seeded. It wouldn't be talked about much if it were Dunfermline.

 

Again, I have to re-iterate, no team can win the competition more easily by being a top seed. If that is the case then any top seed that wins the competition is not worthy as they had an easy ride. No matter the rights or wrongs of it, Rangers will have no easier a chance in the draw than the top 8 seeds, so I can't see how they can complain. If we win it (still a big if) we will be as worthy as any other team in the competition as we will have been either the best or those who beat the best.

 

My final point is that if seeding is important then it is important enough not to do it badly ie find a way of seeding teams that reflects their ability. If it's not important enough to do that then it's not important enough to complain about when it's fudged.