Bloody Poles

[Hildy 0]

That's correct, different punishments for different, if similar, offences. As you like to go off on crime and punishment tangents, that is like saying culpable homicide should receive the same tariff as premeditated murder.

 

Doesn't fair play mean the same as playing by the rules? Introduce a set of rules, and penalties for breaking them, only to turn round and say "Ahh, just forget about it this time." In what way could that be considered to be consistent?

 

Legia did want to be in that group with all it's rules and regulations - they even signed up to it, however, when it fell foul of those edicts, through nobody's fault but their own, they started to bleat about it being unfair. It wasn't, it was stupidity that hundreds of other clubs manage to avoid year after year.

Rules are important. Laws are important too.

 

Rules and laws created by corrupt organisations and dictatorial governments, however, should be more carefully scrutinised and most certainly challenged if they lead to injustice.

 

Many believe that we have seen injustice in the Legia example.

 

I do not believe in meek acceptance of the rulebook. I believe that it should be tested as and when the occasion permits - to find out if particular rules need to be amended or thrown out.

 

This case has thrown up an example of the punishment not being appropriate for the 'crime'. Those who are asking questions about this case are right to do so.

 

Those who repeat over and over again - 'rules are rules' - are more interested in punishment than in justice. As I said earlier, I would not want to count myself in their number.

[Rangersitis 0]

Rules are important. Laws are important too.

 

Rules and laws created by corrupt organisations and dictatorial governments, however, should be more carefully scrutinised and most certainly challenged if they lead to injustice.

 

Many believe that we have seen injustice in the Legia example.

 

I do not believe in meek acceptance of the rulebook. I believe that it should be tested as and when the occasion permits - to find out if particular rules need to be amended or thrown out.

 

This case has thrown up an example of the punishment not being appropriate for the 'crime'. Those who are asking questions about this case are right to do so.

 

Those who repeat over and over again - 'rules are rules' - are more interested in punishment than in justice. As I said earlier, I would not want to count myself in their number.

 

You still haven't addressed the points about Legia a) signing up to those rules; b) failing to challenge this particular rule until they were caught breaking it; and c) not leading the backlash when FK Atyrau, Neftchi Baku, Arsenal Kiev and Maccabi Haifa (I expect that there are other examples) received the same 3-0 forfeit for fielding suspended players.

 

Come to think about it, where was your indignation when those previous injustices, carried out by a corrupt organisation, were being perpetrated on teams which were not facing Celtic?

[Zappa 0]

You make one or two fair points Rangersitis, but the fact remains that in this particular case it was an innocuous mistake that the player wasn't added to the 25-man squad for the St Pats tie while being left out thinking that he would still be serving his suspension. The player was suspended for 3 matches and they didn't play him for 3 matches, so we're talking about an extremely bizarre technicality. They obviously left him out of the squad for the St Pats tie, but included him in the squad for the Celtic games thinking he would no longer be suspended and would be eligible to play in the second leg. Despite the fact that they do appear to have technically breached the rules, it's a very strange situation and clearly one where UEFA should have the authority within their own regulations to take not only appropriate action, but measured action based on the overall circumstances and innocuous nature of the rule breach.

 

Regarding other clubs who've suffered from this same type of nonsensical and extremely harsh adherence to UEFA regs, two wrongs never make a right and nor do three, four, five or six.

[Hildy 0]

You still haven't addressed the points about Legia a) signing up to those rules; b) failing to challenge this particular rule until they were caught breaking it; and c) not leading the backlash when FK Atyrau, Neftchi Baku, Arsenal Kiev and Maccabi Haifa (I expect that there are other examples) received the same 3-0 forfeit for fielding suspended players.

 

Come to think about it, where was your indignation when those previous injustices, carried out by a corrupt organisation, were being perpetrated on teams which were not facing Celtic?

This is a current issue and is therefore being debated now. My indignation is not just reserved for this subject but perhaps you already know that.

 

I note an attitude here that seems to be unquestioningly loyal to authority's rules and regulations. I would suggest, with all due respect, that a more questioning approach might occasionally be more useful. You see it simply - rules are rules and punishment should follow if they are broken. Others see a larger picture and wonder if there is an issue that needs further contemplation and consideration.

 

If you ever find yourself in a position where the rules - or laws - have been unkind to you, I give you this advice freely:

 

Appeal.

[Rangersitis 0]

This is a current issue and is therefore being debated now. My indignation is not just reserved for this subject but perhaps you already know that.

 

I note an attitude here that seems to be unquestioningly loyal to authority's rules and regulations. I would suggest, with all due respect, that a more questioning approach might occasionally be more useful. You see it simply - rules are rules and punishment should follow if they are broken. Others see a larger picture and wonder if there is an issue that needs further contemplation and consideration.

 

If you ever find yourself in a position where the rules - or laws - have been unkind to you, I give you this advice freely:

 

Appeal.

 

You can note whatever you like, but you are totally wrong in your assumptions.

 

If the rules and laws were not to my liking, I wouldn't join up in the first place. Whether that be an occupation, a sport, a social club or even a religion, it makes no difference.

 

If I want to live by my own rules, I set up my own wee thing instead of being so conceited that I expect everyone else to change solely to keep me happy.

[Rangersitis 0]

You make one or two fair points Rangersitis, but the fact remains that in this particular case it was an innocuous mistake that the player wasn't added to the 25-man squad for the St Pats tie while being left out thinking that he would still be serving his suspension. The player was suspended for 3 matches and they didn't play him for 3 matches, so we're talking about an extremely bizarre technicality. They obviously left him out of the squad for the St Pats tie, but included him in the squad for the Celtic games thinking he would no longer be suspended and would be eligible to play in the second leg. Despite the fact that they do appear to have technically breached the rules, it's a very strange situation and clearly one where UEFA should have the authority within their own regulations to take not only appropriate action, but measured action based on the overall circumstances and innocuous nature of the rule breach.

 

Regarding other clubs who've suffered from this same type of nonsensical and extremely harsh adherence to UEFA regs, two wrongs never make a right and nor do three, four, five or six.

 

If the rule needs changed, it is up to the clubs to petition UEFA into doing so - but not once they fall foul of them, for whatever reason.

 

If UEFA start changing a rule mid-competition to suit whatever group is placing pressure on them, the game will become unmanageable with cries of corruption coming left, right and centre.

[Hildy 0]

You can note whatever you like, but you are totally wrong in your assumptions.

 

If the rules and laws were not to my liking, I wouldn't join up in the first place. Whether that be an occupation, a sport, a social club or even a religion, it makes no difference.

 

If I want to live by my own rules, I set up my own wee thing instead of being so conceited that I expect everyone else to change solely to keep me happy.

I was speaking to a guy who was around at the time of Barcelona '72. He was telling me that when Rangers received a two-year ban from UEFA after crowd trouble on the pitch at the Nou Camp, the club's board of directors had no intention of appealing the decision.

 

One guy persuaded them to put in an appeal - Willie Waddell - and of course the ban was halved. If you believe that you have been wronged, you sometimes have to fight to be proved right.

 

Legia are doing that and I wish them well. I think most football fans do.

[compo 6,464]

I am sure this type of thing has happened before and a fine was the punishment I might be wrong though

[Rangersitis 0]

I was speaking to a guy who was around at the time of Barcelona '72. He was telling me that when Rangers received a two-year ban from UEFA after crowd trouble on the pitch at the Nou Camp, the club's board of directors had no intention of appealing the decision.

 

One guy persuaded them to put in an appeal - Willie Waddell - and of course the ban was halved. If you believe that you have been wronged, you sometimes have to fight to be proved right.

 

Legia are doing that and I wish them well. I think most football fans do.

 

Rangers appealed against the length of the ban - a ruling which didn't have a fixed penalty to work to. Legia are not.

 

If you are going to provide comparisons, please try to make them relevant. On second thoughts, don't bother, this is pointless.

[Hildy 0]

Rangers appealed against the length of the ban - a ruling which didn't have a fixed penalty to work to. Legia are not.

 

If you are going to provide comparisons, please try to make them relevant. On second thoughts, don't bother, this is pointless.

Rangers nearly didn't appeal at all.

 

One man persuaded the board to act in the best interests of the club and try to get a fairer penalty.

 

The Rangers board at the time had the same attitude as you - authority has spoken - accept it.

 

We have too often been our own worst enemies with our submissive attitude and (un)dignified silences.