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[Super Cooper 0]

I wonder if Greens threat to finish us off still applies.

[simplythebest 0]

i trusted bomber and for that matter andy cameron who insisted whyte and green were involved with each other. or forlan if you prefer.

 

plenty of information was out there.

 

Andy Cameron who still sits next to board members in the directors box today.

 

Plenty of contradiction with these kind of things

[the gunslinger 3,366]

Andy Cameron who still sits next to board members in the directors box today.

 

Plenty of contradiction with these kind of things

 

In what way? He wasn't afraid to tell the truth and clearly can't be bought.

[Dragonfly Trumpeter 50]

Again, though, what facts do we have that suggest that, rather than McCoist just selling his soul to Green for the shares, that Green didnt sell his consortium's wherewithal to McCoist ? I'm neither pro nor anti McCoist in this debate - more someone sitting on the fence. But I dont see any facts which tell us, for certain, that Green didnt, in the interim, convince McCoist that Charles Green was right for Rangers.

 

Sure, the timing looks suspicious. But we mustnt forget that there was time between him saying "I cant endorse these guys" and him subsequently changing his mind. What are the facts between times, and not just the facts we KNOW about. Yes, he was offered shares but do we know that this is the sole reason that he changed his mind ? We cant say for sure. There was ample time fro Green to hoodwink McCoist the same way he had done with many of the rest of us. Yet you are passing it as fact that McCoist changed his mind SOLELY because of the shares he was granted. We dont know that.

 

McCoist's biggest mistake in all of this, in my view, was with the "I dont check my bank statement" statement that he made - that shows him to be more aloof from the fans than anything else he has said or done.

 

However, he was assured that the club had money, he was assured that everything was fine. So should he have refused the package he was offered back then ? I'm not sure many of us would have done. It is easy for us to say we would work for Rangers for half of this or a fraction of that without being in that position.

 

At the end of the day we all want financial security for us and our own families. We would look out for ourselves too. Perhaps if McCoist just admitted to this then there would be more respect for him and what he has done for the club. But, then again, maybe not.

 

He barely had time to have a shit and wipe his arse between addressing the support in the Ibrox suite to endorsing Greenco at the top of his voice.

 

You are correct though, possibly McCoist's biggest mistake in all of this was the "I dont check my bank statement or know what I am paid comments."

 

But it does not make him aloof, it shows the contempt he has for the Rangers family, perfectly understandable when you put it alongside his 1 Million shares @ 1p when the supporter in the street paid 70 times that. Those 2 issues show it as it is.

 

"However, he was assured that the club had money, he was assured that everything was fine. So should he have refused the package he was offered back then ? I'm not sure many of us would have done. It is easy for us to say we would work for Rangers for half of this or a fraction of that without being in that position."

 

That in itself is quite unbelievable. Was it okay for McCoist to pay 1/70th of what the fans paid because his mate Chuck said it was fine? So is that the defence? Wow. All it does is show McCoist was in bed with Greenco.

 

Words are cheap, actions are much easier to follow. But mark my words, when he finally listens to people, realises how thick he is and gives the shares away to a fans group - because he has no other sensible option - he will be a bigger hero than ever. Win win for McCoist.

 

Pity he never started like that, Malmo and Maribor were not win win and should have seen the inexperienced, unqualified, jobs for the boys chap sacked after a month.

 

Best I take myself out of this debate. There are facts aplenty known about this saga, people are choosing to do anything rather than admit what McCoist did - exactly the same as Greenco. It is simply that some people do not want to accept that McCoist the player has done such things. Most of them believe he has been a tremendous manager as well.

[The Real PapaBear 0]

 

That in itself is quite unbelievable. Was it okay for McCoist to pay 1/70th of what the fans paid because his mate Chuck said it was fine? So is that the defence? Wow. All it does is show McCoist was in bed with Greenco.

 

 

If you had been offered the chance of one million shares in Rangers for 1p per share, would you have refused? Yes or No.

[buster. 5,184]

There's enough bullshit out there in terms of rumours. It's easy enough to make these claims with hindsight but when people make claims that they are not able or not willing to substantiate in any way then it's difficult or impossible to expect most people to support their views.

 

When it's proven that we own the stadium and £22m cash has been raised, but someone has a bad feeling about it and thinks Green's past is a bit shifty, is it reasonable to expect people to 100% believe that it's all going to go tits up?

 

Hey, there's even fans out there telling us the current board are doing a good job.

 

It's not hindsight, I was saying the same thing at the time.

There were quite a few (not all on messageboards) who saw through Green and his bullshit all the way through.

More especially from some individuals closer to what was going on. Some of what was behind this wasn't any old bullshit rumour, but neither was it absolute conclusive evidence.

 

John Brown was involved, knew details not in the public ambit including CW and what seemed to eventually turn into claim/Sevco 5088.

As I said, there was never absolute information and I believe/speculate that Bomber took the decision or was advised to go down the 'deeds' route when on the Ibrox steps.

 

I think some of those Bears I spoke of had decided to 'go with the flow' rather than have the club enter into a cash crisis. (as per previous post)

They thought matters could be addressed in an ongoing manner.

 

What I would say is that generaly the online Bears regarded as financial experts got Green spectacularly wrong.

I saw them take in the corporate speak, the numbers, the IPO, the order of things, and accept it as in the main, a logical path for the business to take.

What I think they failed to take into consideration was the capacity of some to bullshit. Nor perhaps have many experienced quite such a complex and misleading strategy from City sharks as we've been witnessing at Ibrox.

[Dragonfly Trumpeter 50]

If you had been offered the chance of one million shares in Rangers for 1p per share, would you have refused? Yes or No.

 

Yes I would have refused, no question. I was impressed with Green's opening speech the day of the St Johnstone game but a little research and Green himself took about a week to change that opinion - drastically. We also have a chap in our rsc who is well up on that kind of stuff.

 

I lost £20,000 when Rangers FC went into liquidation, never bought a single share in the ipo yet will happily buy into the club again if I feel it is right. I also told all of my friends and rsc members who asked not to touch Greenco with a barge pole.

 

Did you spend any 70p's funding Greenco / McCoist's corporate rape of RFC?

[Zappa 0]

I think some of those Bears I spoke of had decided to 'go with the flow' rather than have the club enter into a cash crisis. (as per previous post) They thought matters could be addressed in an ongoing manner.

 

I think a lot of Bears (myself included) neither liked or trusted Green from the time he opened his mouth and started talking crap in his first presser with Duff & Phelps, but it was a difficult time for the Club and not an easy one for people to really speak their mind about the situation. Even once people did start speaking their mind openly there was also mounting pressure for everyone to give the new regime a chance, give them time etc.

 

In retrospect, I think that after the deal was done and dusted, giving them time to see what they came up with and how they performed as custodians of the Club was the only viable option and that's why I think Ally is getting a bit of a raw deal here despite the issue of his cheapo shares. I genuinely feel that Ally didn't trust them, but like loads of other fans he eventually just realised that there was little option other than to give them a chance.

[barca72 440]

Yes I would have refused, no question. I was impressed with Green's opening speech the day of the St Johnstone game but a little research and Green himself took about a week to change that opinion - drastically. We also have a chap in our rsc who is well up on that kind of stuff.

 

I lost £20,000 when Rangers FC went into liquidation, never bought a single share in the ipo yet will happily buy into the club again if I feel it is right. I also told all of my friends and rsc members who asked not to touch Greenco with a barge pole.

 

Did you spend any 70p's funding Greenco / McCoist's corporate rape of RFC?

 

 

Headshot ...

[buster. 5,184]

I think a lot of Bears (myself included) neither liked or trusted Green from the time he opened his mouth and started talking crap in his first presser with Duff & Phelps, but it was a difficult time for the Club and not an easy one for people to really speak their mind about the situation. Even once people did start speaking their mind openly there was also mounting pressure for everyone to give the new regime a chance, give them time etc.

 

In retrospect, I think that after the deal was done and dusted, giving them time to see what they came up with and how they performed as custodians of the Club was the only viable option and that's why I think Ally is getting a bit of a raw deal here despite the issue of his cheapo shares. I genuinely feel that Ally didn't trust them, but like loads of other fans he eventually just realised that there was little option other than to give them a chance.

 

Yes, I'd agree with most of that.

Post admin., supporters didn't appear to have much choice (that was palatable in short-term) and it was those Bears who were in and around negotiations with D&P and then with Green&Co who weren't able/prepared to go the extra financial mile or five that missed their chance/ were given large fences to jump over.

 

To starve them out pre 2012/13 was a difficult 'sell' and so there was little effort made towards this.

70M pounds later, many are bloated but the club is on it's kness.

 

As a support at various levels we seem to get 'it' wrong far too often.

Obviously it's a large and varied constituency which has been preyed upon by spin doctors. Over time, mindsets have been introduced and thereafter divisions, sown and nutured. As a club we are a case study as to how modern capitalism (employing spin in a BIG way) can prey on a football club....

 

Ally knew fine well that they couldn't be trusted but once the WS/McColl efforts had floundered decided to go with the flow, help keep the business going and his job.

However and IMO the penny shares stick in the throat regardless. They say that it's aswell that Ally is there on the 'inside' but the reallity is that he's been of more use to the custodians than the support. For the support he's been like a 'comfort blanket' that in reallity doesn't exist.

Edited May 29, 2014 by buster.