This latest failure, what's David Murray's part in it all?

[ascender 352]

Thought I'd create a few threads for us to chat about the various issues that have clearly all added up to mean we're looking at another trophy-less season (although there's still the UEFA cup).

 

How about we use this one to discuss David Murray's role in all of this?

 

Not sure if we should mention the Ferguson events of the recent week though as we don't have all the facts on exactly what happened yet.

[Hurlock 0]

I thought it couldn't get any lower than losing 0-2 at home to St. Johnstone.

 

Rangers are pushing me towards a football free world at the moment they really are !!!

 

[craig 5,199]

My personal opinion is that, ultimately, the buck stops at the top which is Sir David Murray.

 

He "chased the dream", got us into debt beyond where we should have been and that debt did not add any value to the club at all (Murray Park aside - and that was only 25% of the total debt he got us into).

 

From there you see the downward spiral of financial prudence which has resulted in us being bargain basement dwellers for almost 5 years. The questions therefore needs to be asked - if we have been in this position for 5 years why is it we are STILL in this same financial position ?

 

As I see it, we got 75 mill in debt, he underwrote 50 mill of that debt to reduce it to 25, we also got 18 mill up front for the JJB deal, so realistically we SHOULD be only 7 mill in debt - whilst across the city our friends have 20 mill of debt. Now, all things being equal we should have 13 mill to play with - but we don't. Why ????

 

Also, with the financial prudence has come reduces in wages - with wages being the biggest cost of any club this is a welcome reduction and should add much financial value to the club, but it doesn't seem to be the case - why ?

 

Also, we have had 5 years to progress our "brand" - has it happened ? No. Yet across the city our friends bought Nakamura 1) because he is a decent player but 2) because they have the foresight to see that he can be branded in a largely untapped market (for a good example just look at some of the baseball players that have moved to the US - they have been good players but not world beaters - but what they HAVE done is add good financial value). Nakamura probably adds more value to Celtic through merchandising and branding than he costs in wages, and that he is a decent player is gravy.

 

Across the city they seem to know what needs to be done to increase revenues when you have a restricted local, domestic market - whilst our custodian buries his head in his French sand with a CEO running the club who is more interested in his tan than our club. Can anyone tell me what true credentials Martin Bain has to be running a football club ? Yet Sir David Murray felt he was the right person to be running our club when his credentials don't suggest, in my opinion, that he should be CEO.

 

Managers are responsible for poor signings that is for sure. Players are responsible for poor performances that is for sure. But had our chairman not been fiscally irresponsible in the first place then our once great club would not be relying on Bosman signings and cheap signings to perform above their ability levels.

 

We should be AT LEAST competing with Celtic - AT LEAST. We had the 9IAR years where we were a very fashionable club and it was at this time we should have been utilising that advantage to distance ourselves financially, in a branding perspective, on the playing side and indeed in every manner possible from Celtic and the rest of Scottish football - what in fact happened was that the fiscal mismanagement meant that we now find ourselves at least 5 years BEHIND Celtic when we should have been 5 years AHEAD of them. What makes this set of circumstances all the more worrying is that it happened in a span of less than 3 years.

 

The ultimate buck stops at the Chairman's door.

[CammyF 8,017]

There is very little that I can add to this thread that I haven't already stated in other threads today.

 

I'll sumerise my feelings by saying that it is my opinion that this man is killing the club we love.

 

Cammy F

[delbear 0]

where to start!!.....

 

 

Striped the club of it's best players......we will replace them

 

 

we will bring in plg and invest in the team...............

 

 

 

yest some people say "mr murray ...9 in a row ....loves the club....." bullshit!!

[buster 0]

We are at another crossroads

 

Like it or lump it DM is the boss so the next move is his

He can take one of 3 options

 

1. Sell the club in the coming months, before the end of the season.

2. Decide that he�´s going to stay, commit himself to 5 years, plan and spend accordingly.

3. Remain lame-duck chairman who thinks more in his image and fattening the club up for eventual sale rather than the club�´s medium to long term future.

 

The one thing we can�´t allow him to do is take the third option.

It�´s the 3rd that he�´s been on and it�´s slowly killing the club on and off the field.

[calscot 0]

Craig you have very good points but the in the end I find myself confused.

 

Yes we had debt but now it is at at manageable level and like you say, less than Celtics.

 

We've reduced the wage costs (although still seem to be over paying players which means we can't get rid of them even to their previous clubs).

 

We've increased income - our turnover is the highest it's ever been.

 

So basically the previous overspending should now be largely irrelevant and we should pretty much be back to square one.

 

The main differences between now and say the previous Smith era is that wages for the top players have spiralled, and the big five leagues have huge amounts of TV and sponsorship cash making us relatively poorer.

 

This has nothing to do with what has happened previously and we should be looking to see what we can do to compete well in the present environment.

 

Celtic seem to be able to do so with similar finances and situation, so why can't we?

 

This is where a lot of the responsibility switches to the manager but you can hardly blame the chairman for his choice in that department.

 

Where the chairman seems solely to blame to me is

 

a) No longer borrowing in a fiscally responsible way to allow spending to increase performance and therefore bring in more income. I believe Craig calls this "gearing".

 

b) Not being around to back up the manager when he has insubordination from players. Indeed, seeming to prefer a player to the manager. Ferguson should have been read the riot act by Murray a long time ago if reports are true. He should have been stripped of the captaincy (although not necessarily dropped) and told to shape up or get shipped out, a long time ago. Insubordination cannot be tolerated.

 

c) Allow a situation where we pay much higher wages than anyone else for mediocre players making them impossible to move on and requiring pay offs. I think this is one of the main reasons we appear to have less money than Celtic. If we are increasing some-one's wages, perhaps we need to make sure it is performance related. If players think they can turn up and win medals here then surely they are willing to take a decent basic compared to what they are on, plus fat bonuses for winning.

 

d) Disrupting the youth academy by creating a high turnover of key personnel.

 

e) Allowing very poor communication with the media by himself and his manager which resulted in the fans and media turning against PLG, resulting in extra pressure on the manager making him want to leave. If ever there is an example of why you need to keep fans honestly informed, it is this. Make that two examples - the same mistake was made with Eck.

[calscot 0]

With regards to © the solution may be to buy middling Premiership players. Souness was successful doing this as he realised that if they didn't work out he could move them on easily, much of the time for a similar money or even a small profit.

 

We would only have to offer similar wages to what they are getting but with the bonus of winning trophies and playing in the CL and the big bonus payments that come with that.

 

When you take players from the SPL and give them big wages, if they don't work out there is usually nowhere for them to go as the rest of the SPL can't afford them. The same goes for Czechs and Slovaks as well as players from the wage capped French league.

 

Players from the Dutch league are also a bit safer as has been proven - Italy has been pretty good too and players from Germany haven't been to hard to move on.

 

It's ironic that it seems we should be bargain hunting in Eastern Europe but are getting our fingers burnt with the likes of Salenko, Kuznetsov, Mikailachenko, Mladenovic, Prodan, Sionko, Sebo, Papac.

[Gribz 850]

With regards to © the solution may be to buy middling Premiership players.

 

Yeah agree with this. We are crying out for some decent signings. Anyone playing in the EPL outside maybe the likes of Watford etc has to be decent and by far more attracive than Falkirk players.

 

Im sure (with the help of Ray Wilkins or the likes) we could attract a few decent prem players.

[ascender 352]

I think most are agreed that the current Celtic team are nothing special, which makes the league positions an even more depressing situation for us. My worry is that Celtic are spending more than us just now while DM seems determined to remain debt free if possible. It looks like Celtic have a healthy attitude to spending to accumulate.

 

However, they are now guaranteed CL footy again next season, which, added to this season's revenue means that they are going to have significantly more money available for transfers and wages yet again next year. They've also made a very prudent signing in Nakamura which does help their global branding in what is a very lucrative market.

 

I'm starting to see the off-the-pitch gap between us and Celtic widen which I think is very worrying. They've shown that while we don't get huge amounts of TV money, it is still possible to spend decent sums on transfer fees for players. They've also shown that they're looking to strengthen their squad with Scottish players at any opportunity and I really worry that we're in danger of behind here.

 

DM is many things, but he's certainly not stupid. However, he has now backed 2 managers with hardly any funds when compared with Celtic. I thought the whole point of downsizing was to get to a point where you can then start spending money again but within your means? The wage budget was under control well over a year ago, but we've still seen no significant re-investment in our playing staff.

 

Whatever happened to the rolling £10M credit that DM said would always be available to the manager? Because looking at the current squad, that is exactly the sort of money that must be made available to Walter Smith if he has any hope of moving us forward.