Fans Groups Invitation – The Louden Tavern.

[Hildy 0]

I see it as even more harmful than that, tbh.

 

Our own actions deny the club defenders or leaders. We miss out on the those who would be the most effective Bluenoses, no offence to those who are trying at present. I can't do anything to help Rangers - I'm an internet poster with a penchant for long winded articles full of crap allusions and nothing more. But we miss out on the people who might make the difference: the politicians, the newspaper people, the broadcasters, the lawyers, the accountants or the businessmen. They won't touch us with a barge pole, and for that any of us who has ever besmirched the name of Rangers with religious or personal abuse can warmly congratulate ourselves.

 

I broadly agree with this. I know it's a sensitive issue, but I suspect that Rangers is losing the middle class, and yes, I am aware that there is no definition of middle class which will satisfy everyone, but I'm sure you and others know what I mean.

 

I see Rangers as the most proletariat fanbase in the country, not quite devoid of top professionals and business types, but with a very small number of them given the size of our support. I know terms like 'proletariat' can provoke and annoy, but they help to make the point and hopefully make people think about the issue.

 

Celtic fans don't seem to give up on Celtic when they flourish in society. Indeed some Celtic fans become more Celtic-inclined as they mature and become financially and professionally successful. In my experience, Rangers fans sometimes grow out of the club they once loved when their careers advance.

 

The reputation of Rangers is at an all-time low, and it will not easily recover - especially if the brightest in our community have either given up on the club or are content to keep it at a safe distance.

[amms 0]

I broadly agree with this. I know it's a sensitive issue, but I suspect that Rangers is losing the middle class, and yes, I am aware that there is no definition of middle class which will satisfy everyone, but I'm sure you and others know what I mean.

 

I see Rangers as the most proletariat fanbase in the country, not quite devoid of top professionals and business types, but with a very small number of them given the size of our support. I know terms like 'proletariat' can provoke and annoy, but they help to make the point and hopefully make people think about the issue.

 

Celtic fans don't seem to give up on Celtic when they flourish in society. Indeed some Celtic fans become more Celtic-inclined as they mature and become financially and professionally successful. In my experience, Rangers fans sometimes grow out of the club they once loved when their careers advance.

 

The reputation of Rangers is at an all-time low, and it will not easily recover - especially if the brightest in our community have either given up on the club or are content to keep it at a safe distance.

 

I agree entirely with this. I made a similar point on here a while ago and got slaughtered for using the term 'middle class' and bemoaning the fact we're struggling to find support there. There was an excellent piece in the Rangers Standard a couple of years back by an ex-editor of the Herald (I think) who made this very point.

 

Your final sentence is absolutely spot on, it's the biggest issue facing the club long term, assuming we actually have a long term.

[Calgacus 8]

Isn't it the case that a lot of the "middle class" (for want of a better expression) who might otherwise support Rangers, tend to be more interested in rugby than football?

[Hildy 0]

I agree entirely with this. I made a similar point on here a while ago and got slaughtered for using the term 'middle class' and bemoaning the fact we're struggling to find support there. There was an excellent piece in the Rangers Standard a couple of years back by an ex-editor of the Herald (I think) who made this very point.

 

Your final sentence is absolutely spot on, it's the biggest issue facing the club long term, assuming we actually have a long term.

 

We are alienating our own. Society has changed and things that never used to raise an eyebrow now have people recoiling in horror.

 

Whether we like it or not, the vocal presence of Rangers fans goes a long say to defining us, and when we hear, usually at away games, questionable songs and chants, a televised audience is listening as well as watching and wondering if Rangers really is the dinosaur that it is often portrayed to be.

 

How many discerning parents want to bring their children up in an environment immersed in that? Sit and watch a televised Rangers game in the company of non-football people and justify the pride you have in your club in the face of the bilge coming from the terraces.

 

Read forums where Rangers fans congregate and despair at the the lack of respect that people have for each other. This forum is not typical of the level of debate that can be found. There are some excellent contributors on busier forums, but I know a few who have become tired of the vitriol and monocultural tone, and now they no longer bother. I know people who are polite, well-mannered and articulate who have been banned for posting unpopular opinions on one of the busier forums - but not the busiest - and they have chucked it too.

 

There is nothing worse than people who see themselves as 'real' Rangers fans sounding off about how staunch they are and decrying the rest. To be a big club, Rangers has to be a multilayered, multi-opinioned entity. Sadly, though, non-hardcore opinions don't fit in with the strident and often unthinking attitudes that some Rangers fans have, and if the debate can't cope with their opinions, and if they are banned from articulating them, we all suffer as the club begins to resemble the beast that our enemies constantly portray it to be.

 

To be a big club, Rangers has to have an appeal across all classes in society. I'm not sure that it is doing that any more. I believe it is losing the middle class, and in doing so, it will diminish in status and pay a heavy and damaging price.

[amms 0]

Isn't it the case that a lot of the "middle class" (for want of a better expression) who might otherwise support Rangers, tend to be more interested in rugby than football?

 

That's a generalisation, it's perfectly possible to be interested in both, plus golf.

I made the point once that pretty much every boy in St Aloyious (prominent RC private school in Glasgow) is perfectly comfortable declaring openly an affiliation with Celtic, however if you take say Glasgow High, a comparative non-denominational school, the same cannot be said about Rangers. Those kids come from the same social 'class', the same geographic area, their parents have the same jobs and the preferred sport at both schools is rugby.

 

In my experience this isn't just a private school thing, plenty of kids at non-denominational schools are shunning Rangers for 'social' reasons now.

[buster. 5,183]

Isn't it the case that a lot of the "middle class" (for want of a better expression) who might otherwise support Rangers, tend to be more interested in rugby than football?

 

I think the easiest way to illustrate this matter is to compare us with Celtic when looking at social media. The respective organisation and professionalism involved when it comes to 'investigations' and lobbying others is at very different levels.

 

They seem to have a plethora of 'professionals' prepared to come forward and contribute to a perceived 'cause'.

We have a trickle and are very much 3rd tier in this area compared to our rivals.

 

The other thing to bear in mind wrt this is that some of what I term as 'professionals' within our ranks actually bat against each other and so there isn't a real common goal as such. This brings you back to 'division', suspect judgement/interests and toxic spin.

 

This is obviously only part of what is being referred to within Hildy's post.

[Rangersitis 0]

We are alienating our own. Society has changed and things that never used to raise an eyebrow now have people recoiling in horror.

 

Whether we like it or not, the vocal presence of Rangers fans goes a long say to defining us, and when we hear, usually at away games, questionable songs and chants, a televised audience is listening as well as watching and wondering if Rangers really is the dinosaur that it is often portrayed to be.

 

How many discerning parents want to bring their children up in an environment immersed in that? Sit and watch a televised Rangers game in the company of non-football people and justify the pride you have in your club in the face of the bilge coming from the terraces.

 

Read forums where Rangers fans congregate and despair at the the lack of respect that people have for each other. This forum is not typical of the level of debate that can be found. There are some excellent contributors on busier forums, but I know a few who have become tired of the vitriol and monocultural tone, and now they no longer bother. I know people who are polite, well-mannered and articulate who have been banned for posting unpopular opinions on one of the busier forums - but not the busiest - and they have chucked it too.

 

There is nothing worse than people who see themselves as 'real' Rangers fans sounding off about how staunch they are and decrying the rest. To be a big club, Rangers has to be a multilayered, multi-opinioned entity. Sadly, though, non-hardcore opinions don't fit in with the strident and often unthinking attitudes that some Rangers fans have, and if the debate can't cope with their opinions, and if they are banned from articulating them, we all suffer as the club begins to resemble the beast that our enemies constantly portray it to be.

 

To be a big club, Rangers has to have an appeal across all classes in society. I'm not sure that it is doing that any more. I believe it is losing the middle class, and in doing so, it will diminish in status and pay a heavy and damaging price.

 

The middle-class has always been there, and I'm sure that there has always been a level of disdain shown to those who don't quite 'measure up'.

 

The bigger problem to me seems to lie with the social climbers who like to hide their true roots behind a veil of respectability. The Hyacinth Bucket effect, I suppose. This, coupled with a political elite who are hell-bent on seeing multiculturalism and political correctness foisted upon everyone, leads to a situation where, yes, there will be some who hide their allegiances for fear of being shunned for a Sunday fourball with the club captain, but to achieve that multilayered, multi-opinioned entity that you crave, there will inevitably be casualties along the way.

 

There will also be others, myself included, who yearn for the days when the game was a bit rough around the edges and where passion frequently boiled over for a couple of hours each week. Give me that over the soulless stadium filled with the 2.4 family bedecked in matching bench coats and their six quid gourmet burgers.

 

The socio-political make up of a football crowd has naturally evolved through time and will continue to do so. Engineering it to go a certain way will never work as it will always alienate someone.

[amms 0]

The middle-class has always been there, and I'm sure that there has always been a level of disdain shown to those who don't quite 'measure up'.

 

The bigger problem to me seems to lie with the social climbers who like to hide their true roots behind a veil of respectability. The Hyacinth Bucket effect, I suppose. This, coupled with a political elite who are hell-bent on seeing multiculturalism and political correctness foisted upon everyone, leads to a situation where, yes, there will be some who hide their allegiances for fear of being shunned for a Sunday fourball with the club captain, but to achieve that multilayered, multi-opinioned entity that you crave, there will inevitably be casualties along the way.

 

There will also be others, myself included, who yearn for the days when the game was a bit rough around the edges and where passion frequently boiled over for a couple of hours each week. Give me that over the soulless stadium filled with the 2.4 family bedecked in matching bench coats and their six quid gourmet burgers.

 

The socio-political make up of a football crowd has naturally evolved through time and will continue to do so. Engineering it to go a certain way will never work as it will always alienate someone.

 

That's a bizarre reply. It's nothing to do with being shunned for a sunday fourball and everything to do with not been seen as a bigoted, one-eyed, ranting dinosaur with no grasp of modern Scotland. Still, as the club becomes ever more isolated and friendless you can comfort yourself with the knowledge that you're still getting your 90 minutes of rough once a week.

 

There's an interesting parallel with Espanyol at play here, or Queens Park. Football is littered with sides who used to be important but didn't move with the times.

[buster. 5,183]

That's a bizarre reply. It's nothing to do with being shunned for a sunday fourball and everything to do with not been seen as a bigoted, one-eyed, ranting dinosaur with no grasp of modern Scotland. Still, as the club becomes ever more isolated and friendless you can comfort yourself with the knowledge that you're still getting your 90 minutes of rough once a week.

 

There's an interesting parallel with Espanyol at play here, or Queens Park. Football is littered with sides who used to be important but didn't move with the times.

 

We are already 'Espanyolificado'.

ie. living in the shadow of direct rival.

 

Histroically you have had transitory periods where one dominates another but this particular episode goes much deeper.

We have been many years in metaphorically digging such a hole, to the extent that it becomes very difficult (all things considered) to see daylight in the medium-term.

[Hildy 0]

The middle-class has always been there, and I'm sure that there has always been a level of disdain shown to those who don't quite 'measure up'.

 

The bigger problem to me seems to lie with the social climbers who like to hide their true roots behind a veil of respectability. The Hyacinth Bucket effect, I suppose. This, coupled with a political elite who are hell-bent on seeing multiculturalism and political correctness foisted upon everyone, leads to a situation where, yes, there will be some who hide their allegiances for fear of being shunned for a Sunday fourball with the club captain, but to achieve that multilayered, multi-opinioned entity that you crave, there will inevitably be casualties along the way.

 

There will also be others, myself included, who yearn for the days when the game was a bit rough around the edges and where passion frequently boiled over for a couple of hours each week. Give me that over the soulless stadium filled with the 2.4 family bedecked in matching bench coats and their six quid gourmet burgers.

 

The socio-political make up of a football crowd has naturally evolved through time and will continue to do so. Engineering it to go a certain way will never work as it will always alienate someone.

 

I don't agree with the direction of travel in society. I don't think a politically correct society is healthy and I certainly don't want people criminalised for being tasteless and uncouth, but we have to exist and flourish in society as it is - not as we wish it would be.

 

Rangers is on the back foot in society, partly because of rogue ownership and incompetence, but also because it has lost influence within the sport; within government both locally and nationally, and because its large fanbase has minimum influence in high places - and when it takes centre stage for televised football, it tends not to present itself in a way that is attractive or endearing.

 

When a football club sinks as low as we have, it really has to address negative issues constructively, because if it doesn't, a full recovery becomes harder to achieve. When the club is in disarray on and off the park to the extent that we are, it will lose people that it simply cannot afford to lose, and in my experience, this process is already well under way.