RANGERRAB 3,653 Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Well clearly King/UoF feel they can persuade enough bears to sign up for this in order to effectively force the club into granting security. I've no doubt a few thousand bears will sign up but even if it's a fair bit more than that, I don't think it will be enough for the club to change their mind on that front. All in all, I don't see the point and I feel King would have been better served putting together a vehicle that outlined his blueprint for the club along with the funds he says he's happy to invest. That would have been more effective IMO. The board cannot possibly handover company assets to a third party. They'd get removed by the shareholders(who own the company) and be replaced by another board. What they want to do(provided the board hand over ibrox & MP as security which they won't) is collect ST monies mid july and then give the money to the club but if the board say no they won't collect any money.................... 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forlanssister 3,114 Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 The board cannot possibly handover company assets to a third party. They'd get removed by the shareholders(who own the company) and be replaced by another board.What they want to do(provided the board hand over ibrox & MP as security which they won't) is collect ST monies mid july and then give the money to the club but if the board say no they won't collect any money.................... The Albion car park and Edmiston House ring any bells? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedell 5,624 Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 There's still detail missing in respect of the plan. When would Ibrox 1972 hand back the security? Who are the other directors to be? Why aren't they in place now? Do they really expect the club to hand over security to a company when there are going to be unknown directors in the future? Who are the shareholders of Ibrox 1972? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RANGERRAB 3,653 Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 The Albion car park and Edmiston House ring any bells? big difference between them and ibrox & MP. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forlanssister 3,114 Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 big difference between them and ibrox & MP. Principle is identical Company assets have been pledged to third parties as security. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrahimHemdani 1 Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 As I have been saying for some time and as BD confirms above this is not a trust, it is a limited company who are going to appoint directors currently unknown and whose shareholders are also currently unknown. The current directors must act in the best interests of the company and there is no indication as some on here have suggested that those who pledge to contribute will become shareholders. This is important because if it were a trust the trustees would be legally obliged to act in the best interests of the beneficiaries who in this case would also be the contributors. Since the pledges are revocable at any time up to 15 July 2014 I don't see how the company or Rangers can rely on them being fulfilled. Note that any dispute concerning the Season Ticket(s) (including without limitation, in relation to the availability or allocation of any specific seat and/or the manner in which the Season Ticket is honoured (or not honoured) by Rangers) and any related matter (other than our performance of the service described in clause 2 of these Terms) shall be a matter between you and Rangers and we shall have no liability in connection with it; I don't see how Ibrox 1872 Ltd can enforce it's T&C's on Rangers. So if Ibrox 1872 Ltd pays Rangers for a ticket on your behalf and there is dispute between you and Rangers, say over which seat you get, Rangers will speak to you about it? I very much doubt it. If you have a dispute and you phone up Rangers, they will say you didn't buy the ticket from us, speak to the people who did. Potential investors in this company should also take particluar note of the following conditions: 10.2 Subject to clause 10.1, we will not be liable to you in any circumstance (whether in contract, delict (including negligence), breach of statutory duty, or otherwise, and whether or not foreseeable), arising under or in connection with the Terms for any: (whole variety of things but importantly): 10.3 Subject to clause 10.1, neither we nor any of our officers, employees or advisers shall be liable for any delay in or failure to deliver any Season Ticket to you as a result of the breach, default, delay, negligence or any other act or omission of Rangers or any person acting on its behalf. 10.4 Subject to clause 10.1, our total liability to you in respect of all losses arising under or in connection with the Terms which are not otherwise excluded (whether in contract, delict (including negligence), breach of statutory duty, or otherwise, and whether or not foreseeable), shall in no circumstances exceed the total price actually paid by you to us for Season Ticket(s). 10.5 Insofar as is permitted in law, other than insofar as expressly stated in these Terms we do not give any representation, warranties or undertakings in relation to the Season Ticket(s). Any representation, warranty or undertaking which might be implied or incorporated into these Terms by statute, common law or otherwise is hereby excluded to the fullest extent permitted by law. This clause might also be a concern: Subject to us receiving payment in full and cleared funds for the Season Ticket(s) you have requested (plus any applicable VAT, transaction fees and delivery charges) we shall, as soon as reasonably practicable following receipt of such payment, seek to purchase the Season Ticket(s) from Rangers on your behalf. We shall hold your payment on trust pending onward payment of the same to Rangers, as consideration for your purchase of Season Ticket(s). This appears to indicate that you may have to pay the transaction fees specified, unspecified "delivery charges" and what applicable VAT is that? Does it also mean that there is a possibility that the company may have to charge VAT on your already vatable ticket because they are providing a service? I see no possiblity of the Board of Rangers agreeing to grant security over Ibrox in return for whatever monies are pledged as I am fairly sure that the directors would argue that it would be a breach of their fiduciary duty to do so. At a first reading I don't see anything about when the security would be released, so does it go on indefinitely for the one season's ST money? What about next season? I don't read anything about 2015/16 onwards? IMHO the whole concept is fundamentally flawed in any event because it treats the ST monies as a loan to the Club, which even the strongest proponents of the scheme know they are not. It will not succeed. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEARGER 1,830 Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 As I have been saying for some time and as BD confirms above this is not a trust, it is a limited company who are going to appoint directors currently unknown and whose shareholders are also currently unknown. The current directors must act in the best interests of the company and there is no indication as some on here have suggested that those who pledge to contribute will become shareholders. This is important because if it were a trust the trustees would be legally obliged to act in the best interests of the beneficiaries who in this case would also be the contributors. Since the pledges are revocable at any time up to 15 July 2014 I don't see how the company or Rangers can rely on them being fulfilled. Note that any dispute concerning the Season Ticket(s) (including without limitation, in relation to the availability or allocation of any specific seat and/or the manner in which the Season Ticket is honoured (or not honoured) by Rangers) and any related matter (other than our performance of the service described in clause 2 of these Terms) shall be a matter between you and Rangers and we shall have no liability in connection with it; I don't see how Ibrox 1872 Ltd can enforce it's T&C's on Rangers. So if Ibrox 1872 Ltd pays Rangers for a ticket on your behalf and there is dispute between you and Rangers, say over which seat you get, Rangers will speak to you about it? I very much doubt it. If you have a dispute and you phone up Rangers, they will say you didn't buy the ticket from us, speak to the people who did. Potential investors in this company should also take particluar note of the following conditions: 10.2 Subject to clause 10.1, we will not be liable to you in any circumstance (whether in contract, delict (including negligence), breach of statutory duty, or otherwise, and whether or not foreseeable), arising under or in connection with the Terms for any: (whole variety of things but importantly): 10.3 Subject to clause 10.1, neither we nor any of our officers, employees or advisers shall be liable for any delay in or failure to deliver any Season Ticket to you as a result of the breach, default, delay, negligence or any other act or omission of Rangers or any person acting on its behalf. 10.4 Subject to clause 10.1, our total liability to you in respect of all losses arising under or in connection with the Terms which are not otherwise excluded (whether in contract, delict (including negligence), breach of statutory duty, or otherwise, and whether or not foreseeable), shall in no circumstances exceed the total price actually paid by you to us for Season Ticket(s). 10.5 Insofar as is permitted in law, other than insofar as expressly stated in these Terms we do not give any representation, warranties or undertakings in relation to the Season Ticket(s). Any representation, warranty or undertaking which might be implied or incorporated into these Terms by statute, common law or otherwise is hereby excluded to the fullest extent permitted by law. This clause might also be a concern: Subject to us receiving payment in full and cleared funds for the Season Ticket(s) you have requested (plus any applicable VAT, transaction fees and delivery charges) we shall, as soon as reasonably practicable following receipt of such payment, seek to purchase the Season Ticket(s) from Rangers on your behalf. We shall hold your payment on trust pending onward payment of the same to Rangers, as consideration for your purchase of Season Ticket(s). This appears to indicate that you may have to pay the transaction fees specified, unspecified "delivery charges" and what applicable VAT is that? Does it also mean that there is a possibility that the company may have to charge VAT on your already vatable ticket because they are providing a service? I see no possiblity of the Board of Rangers agreeing to grant security over Ibrox in return for whatever monies are pledged as I am fairly sure that the directors would argue that it would be a breach of their fiduciary duty to do so. At a first reading I don't see anything about when the security would be released, so does it go on indefinitely for the one season's ST money? What about next season? I don't read anything about 2015/16 onwards? IMHO the whole concept is fundamentally flawed in any event because it treats the ST monies as a loan to the Club, which even the strongest proponents of the scheme know they are not. It will not succeed. You hope it will not succeed would be a more honest statement. "So if Ibrox 1872 Ltd pays Rangers for a ticket on your behalf and there is dispute between you and Rangers, say over which seat you get, Rangers will speak to you about it? I very much doubt it. If you have a dispute and you phone up Rangers, they will say you didn't buy the ticket from us, speak to the people who did." That is just more waffle from you, trying to kid on that there are loads of others waiting for that particular seat. There is no waiting list, there is no upsurge in new fans appearing. My main worry is that 1000's will just not renew due to the football we are served up & the shyster's running our club, these people could be lost for a long time or for ever. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aweebluesoandso 290 Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 That's me pledged £350, i see this as more a buy Rangers than a season ticket trust. If we go into administration again, DK and the support should be ready this time to act decisively to buy a controlling stake in the club, as Green did in the first admin event. If we don't go into admin then the season ticket fund or whatever it becomes, can trade funds for security on assets. Either way it goes it's a back up plan for the support. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrahimHemdani 1 Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 (edited) You hope it will not succeed would be a more honest statement. "So if Ibrox 1872 Ltd pays Rangers for a ticket on your behalf and there is dispute between you and Rangers, say over which seat you get, Rangers will speak to you about it? I very much doubt it. If you have a dispute and you phone up Rangers, they will say you didn't buy the ticket from us, speak to the people who did." That is just more waffle from you, trying to kid on that there are loads of others waiting for that particular seat. There is no waiting list, there is no upsurge in new fans appearing. My main worry is that 1000's will just not renew due to the football we are served up & the shyster's running our club, these people could be lost for a long time or for ever. I do hope it will not succeed that's true but I also don't think it has any chance of success. The statement you highlight is not waffle becuase whilst you are doubtless correct about the lack of a season ticket waiting list, the Company are at great pains to say that you are not guranateed your seat and they exclude all liability for that and many other circumstances. I am sure that you and others of the same persuasion must be totally underwhelmed by this scheme since there is still no money on the table from Mr King and no plan from him to take Rangers forward either. We do find oursleves in complete agreement however about the quality of football (or lack of it) argument being the single most important factor in most fan's decision alongside their loyalty to the Club. Ultimately the vast majority of fans don't really care who sits in the boardroom so long as they see a decent winning team on the park. Edited May 5, 2014 by BrahimHemdani 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrahimHemdani 1 Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 That's me pledged £350, i see this as more a buy Rangers than a season ticket trust. If we go into administration again, DK and the support should be ready this time to act decisively to buy a controlling stake in the club, as Green did in the first admin event. If we don't go into admin then the season ticket fund or whatever it becomes, can trade funds for security on assets. Either way it goes it's a back up plan for the support. Then I would respectfully suggest that you have invested your money on a false premise. Your money cannot be used to buy Rangers. If large numbers of fans do not renew and the club goes into administration your money will not be taken because the security condition will not be met. If you want to use your money to buy Rangers then you should consider the RST/BR or RF schemes (and BTW has anyone noticed a similarity in the web site designs?) if you are not already contributing to either of those schemes. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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