simplythebest 0 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Why would this happen though? We've been buying season tickets for years and this has never been done, why's it going to happen now? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTinMan99 0 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Presumably if this security doesn't get granted the next step is to withhold the money though? I'd think it's easier said than done for the club to actually agree to this. It was easy enough to secure Edmiston house and the Albion against a million pound loan. Why would this be any different? The cash from the trust would essentially be a secured loan, that doesn't need to be paid back. All it does is protect Ibrox against any insolvency event, which is where we're heading if the King investment goes tits up. After the last 3 years, it seems like a reasonable request from the support. In the event of another admin, the support would no doubt be the biggest creditor, and we all know what that means. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythebest 0 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 It was easy enough to secure Edmiston house and the Albion against a million pound loan. Why would this be any different? The cash from the trust would essentially be a secured loan, that doesn't need to be paid back. All it does is protect Ibrox against any insolvency event, which is where we're heading if the King investment goes tits up. After the last 3 years, it seems like a reasonable request from the support. In the event of another admin, the support would no doubt be the biggest creditor, and we all know what that means. How long do we go on worrying that another insolvency event may be around the corner? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTinMan99 0 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 How long do we go on worrying that another insolvency event may be around the corner? Dunno, perhaps when we stop losing close on a million a month, and when the board stop treating us all like 5 yr old cash machines. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian1964 10,563 Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 We've been buying season tickets for years and this has never been done, why's it going to happen now? We've been buying season tickets for years and never been in such bad shape and being run so badly! 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gunslinger 3,366 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I think it's going down a dangerous route though, especially when it's money the club really needs. if they had run us properly not only would we not need money we wouldn't need to demand change or security over assets. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gunslinger 3,366 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 How long do we go on worrying that another insolvency event may be around the corner? a question you should be puting to the easdales not us. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barca72 440 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 This renting the stadium thing is just a gimmick. If the board were doing this with anyone else the fans would be rioting. You want the board to sign over Ibrox and Auchenhowie for season ticket money. Lets look at it. 30,000 STs at £ 500.00 per = £15,000,000 which is for 18 games which equals £ 27.78 per game per supporter. What is it, £ 28.00 for pay-at-the-gate? We can assume that monthly costs are more than £ 1,000,000 per month, since it was quoted when the club had no money it was losing £ 1M /mth, so lets say for the sake of argument that by the end of the season the club will have spent all of that £ 15M. The board will have to generate other monies to meet any other costs, like buying new players and salaries for same, etc. Okay, supposing we agree up to this point, that means that the board have given ownership of Ibrox and Auchenhowie to the supporters, purely for one season's operating costs. Now if these properties are in the supporters' possession, what happens if ... a) the team is playing lousy and we end up in the middle of the league, b) we get promotion to the premiership, but we're not strong enough to compete for the title, c) the football is so dire that the fans turn away during the season in droves, etc., etc. If this was to be some kind of renewable contract each season, the fans own the facilities in exchange for the going rate for the season, and any of the above conditions exist and the fans are not willing to fork out for season tickets, where does that leave us? Do you really think that investors would back a board whose hands are tied in a falling market? Remember we have had games where there were a lot of empty seats at Ibrox. Who guarantees the board £15M., if the above conditions should change the supporters enthusiam? If the board in this economic climate are unable to increase revenues to cover cash shortfalls, and the fans have not provided it through STs, where are we further ahead with the fans controlling the possibility of using these facilities to raise cash even if it is only for the short term, like re-naming Ibrox etc.? Do you honestly think the fans could agree on what business decisions should be made? The Trust will require to have appointees making decisions, will they be any better than the present board? Remember the appointees for the RFFF and this present question with Houston? We have seen what happens when club boards allow the fans to make decisions for them, the SPL vote for our membership for example. Unfortunately, the company must be run by one board, even if it oversees various business units, and they HAVE to get it right. This was only ever a vehicle for King to force the board to take him seriously. If King gets his share issue and ends up owning a huge part of the club, what happens when he passes on? Would his shares go to his family or to the fans? Maybe these fan ownership schemes are the proper way for fans to get a voice. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gunslinger 3,366 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 its only as security we want assets not to own them. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrahimHemdani 1 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 This renting the stadium thing is just a gimmick. If the board were doing this with anyone else the fans would be rioting.You want the board to sign over Ibrox and Auchenhowie for season ticket money. Lets look at it. 30,000 STs at £ 500.00 per = £15,000,000 which is for 18 games which equals £ 27.78 per game per supporter. What is it, £ 28.00 for pay-at-the-gate? We can assume that monthly costs are more than £ 1,000,000 per month, since it was quoted when the club had no money it was losing £ 1M /mth, so lets say for the sake of argument that by the end of the season the club will have spent all of that £ 15M. The board will have to generate other monies to meet any other costs, like buying new players and salaries for same, etc. Okay, supposing we agree up to this point, that means that the board have given ownership of Ibrox and Auchenhowie to the supporters, purely for one season's operating costs. Now if these properties are in the supporters' possession, what happens if ... a) the team is playing lousy and we end up in the middle of the league, b) we get promotion to the premiership, but we're not strong enough to compete for the title, c) the football is so dire that the fans turn away during the season in droves, etc., etc. If this was to be some kind of renewable contract each season, the fans own the facilities in exchange for the going rate for the season, and any of the above conditions exist and the fans are not willing to fork out for season tickets, where does that leave us? Do you really think that investors would back a board whose hands are tied in a falling market? Remember we have had games where there were a lot of empty seats at Ibrox. Who guarantees the board £15M., if the above conditions should change the supporters enthusiam? If the board in this economic climate are unable to increase revenues to cover cash shortfalls, and the fans have not provided it through STs, where are we further ahead with the fans controlling the possibility of using these facilities to raise cash even if it is only for the short term, like re-naming Ibrox etc.? Do you honestly think the fans could agree on what business decisions should be made? The Trust will require to have appointees making decisions, will they be any better than the present board? Remember the appointees for the RFFF and this present question with Houston? We have seen what happens when club boards allow the fans to make decisions for them, the SPL vote for our membership for example. Unfortunately, the company must be run by one board, even if it oversees various business units, and they HAVE to get it right. This was only ever a vehicle for King to force the board to take him seriously. If King gets his share issue and ends up owning a huge part of the club, what happens when he passes on? Would his shares go to his family or to the fans? Maybe these fan ownership schemes are the proper way for fans to get a voice. And these are just some of the possible scenarios. The Board won't grant security over Ibrox and Murray Park because it ties their collective hands behind their collective backs. It is interesting to note that the drip-feed idea has now been consigned to the scrap heap and rightly so. If the Chairman's statement In particular, recent public comments suggesting season ticket holders divert payment away from the Club has caused a level of uncertainty over the timing and quantum of season ticket cash flowing into the Club, which as with many other football clubs, is Rangers' primary source of income. If this were to happen then there would be a negative impact on short-term cash balances and it is possible that the Club may need to seek alternative additional short term financing. This clearly would not be in the best interests of Rangers and would likely have a significant impact on our ability to progress the development of the Club in the planned manner. and the auditor's comments This condition relating to the timing of receipt of season ticket monies, along with the details provided in note 2 to the condensed set of financial statements, indicate the existence of a material uncertainty which may cast significant doubt about the Company's ability to continue as a going concern and therefore that the Company may be unable to realise its assets and discharge its liabilities in the normal course of business. do not spell out the dangers clearly enough, then it is hard to imagine what would. If the company becomes unable to discharge its liabilities when they fall due then the prospect of a new insolvency event looms large. High stakes indeed. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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