Keith Jackson: It's time Celtic & Rangers played the game.. and not the galleries

[The Real PapaBear 0]

I don't read RM, and I'm only on here I suppose and so may live a sheltered Rangers life.

 

But you look at any of their sites and it's almost a 100% hate fest with what seems like more bile filled threads about us than talking about their own stuff.

 

Look at any anti-Rangers "journalist" and those more "pro-Rangers" and it's chalk and cheese with the lies, smears and propaganda almost entirely in one direction. (They do criticise Celtic but it is done far more respectful and is usually very justified.)

 

Look on the Scotsman or equivalent for comments and Rangers articles riddled with hate-filled crap by Tims unwilling to even step out of the repetitive, dumbed down rhetoric to debate, but you don't see much of a vice versa going on.

 

Their manager and CEO make totally out of order remarks, quips and jokes; ours just don't - even Green.

 

Ours criticise our board and fans about political stuff and behaviour when they think it's due, theirs close ranks and start a huge propaganda defensive.

 

Theirs complain and campagne in huge numbers to anyone they can about the smallest things about us, ours don't.

 

Theirs infiltrate the SFA, the council and bigotry watchdogs and turn everything against us while helping their own, ours don't.

 

I could go on and on.

 

I would agree with most of that; not all, but most. I think the difference between our supports is the social and/or intellectual level at which the bigotry starts or stops. In my experience of Rangers fans, the real bigotry tends to die out fairly soon after you leave the realm of what I used to call knuckledraggers before I got a row from Andy. The bigotry of Celtic fans goes way, way higher up the scale.

 

On a side point, I won't say more than this (cos Frankie doesn't like us bad-mouthing other sites) but if you have never visited other sites, you really should. It would open your eyes. This place is like a gentleman's club in comparison.

[bluebear54 0]

Well said PapaBear.

The phenomenon of bigotry and hatred on forums is well spread across all Clubs by the way - although I must say that I haven't checked out most of the lower league forums.

What sets Celtic fans apart in an internet aspect is the level of complex machinations that they are prepared to hatch in order to attempt to hurt us.

In the long term, they are succeeding in making us far more newsworthy than their own Club, and so becoming even more vital to the Scottish football industry.

[bossy 0]

I would agree with most of that; not all, but most. I think the difference between our supports is the social and/or intellectual level at which the bigotry starts or stops. In my experience of Rangers fans, the real bigotry tends to die out fairly soon after you leave the realm of what I used to call knuckledraggers before I got a row from Andy. The bigotry of Celtic fans goes way, way higher up the scale.

 

On a side point, I won't say more than this (cos Frankie doesn't like us bad-mouthing other sites) but if you have never visited other sites, you really should. It would open your eyes. This place is like a gentleman's club in comparison.

 

One of the reasons I am now spending more time on here than elsewhere. The quality of conversation is simply at a different level.

 

With regard to Celtic, it is quite clear that there are Celtic supporters who are clearly very intelligent and who have made it to high places in the media, academia and business but who have never managed to shed their deep seated hatred for Rangers or an underlying feeling of inferiority (justified or not) with regard to us. This latter explains, I think, the aggressive and vindictive agenda that so many of them seem to follow.

[Frankie 8,665]

I think we have to understand that the Celtic minded have been working towards the current situation for at least 20 years. Their anti-establishment work permeates through religion, politics, media and sport - so much so that, in actual fact, it could be argued they've become the establishment they used to mock. You can't fail to admire their position. Some will laugh at such paranoia but I genuinely believe that's where we are.

 

Agree or not, the main question is whether or not we can match their passion in opposing their influence. Are we prepared to spend the next 20 years+ reclaiming old ground (partially at least) or are we more interested in arguing with each other and hamstringing ourselves in the process? For example, it's obvious people like Muirhead and mad Phil detest each other but they will also work together for the benefit of the whole.

 

Can we do the same?

[bossy 0]

It isn't so much that they are 'anti-establishment' but rather that they wanted to become the establishment. And in the fields of politics, academia and sport I think to a large extent they have succeeded. I don't think they have enjoyed the same success in business but that is more because the main levers of economic power have deserted Scotland than anything else.

 

In a sense, Rangers is a symbol of the old establishment and, with us still around, they can never fully feel that they own the establishment even though - de facto - I think they do. For them, in some respects, Celtic is a unifying force. The glue that holds the different strands of success together. A common identity linking success in academia with success in politics.

 

For most of us, Rangers represents a football club rather than a cause and I think that is a key difference. So reclaiming old ground would actually take a significant cultural shift in how we think of Rangers and how we interact with each other. For example, would you deny someone a job on the grounds that they support Celtic? In my professional life I would never have done that. But I think that is the kind of cultural shift we are talking about. Because I think that the Celtic minded look after their own in a way that we do not.

[Juancornetto 1]

I think the short answer Frankie is NO.

 

Culturally we're just different, we don't have the same chip on our shoulder as they do. We're not brought up to believe that if we lose at something then it's rigged but if we succeed it's because you're simply better than everybody else. That's the psychological horsepower that's driven those in positions of inlfuence to get there in the first place and once they have that influence there's no question that they'll use it for maximum gain for their own agenda. If you question it, you ,must be a bigot.

 

They've been fighting a war while we've been enjoying a sport.

[bossy 0]

I think the short answer Frankie is NO.

 

Culturally we're just different, we don't have the same chip on our shoulder as they do. We're not brought up to believe that if we lose at something then it's rigged but if we succeed it's because you're simply better than everybody else. That's the psychological horsepower that's driven those in positions of inlfuence to get there in the first place and once they have that influence there's no question that they'll use it for maximum gain for their own agenda. If you question it, you ,must be a bigot.

 

They've been fighting a war while we've been enjoying a sport.

 

Yep, very succinctly put.

[Frankie 8,665]

 

They've been fighting a war while we've been enjoying a sport.

 

Absolutely. And, willing participant or not, we're losing the war.

[der Berliner 3,815]

And much to my chagrin, they tell us that we're actually the bad guys on all frontiers ... and no-one in Scotland objects.

[andy steel 0]

Even so, and I don't disagree, I just can't intellectually justify getting involved at a celtc like level over the football. There's more to life than that.

 

Btw, I think we are over estimating the celtc minded's 'power' within the establishment. Whereas previously excluded from certain professions, they are now as able as anyone else to be a dentist, or an accountant, or whatever, but the largest (and most ignored) group of - how to put it - 'not ethnic Scots' - in this country are English people.

 

I often wonder how it is the Radio Scotland can find loads of Irish accents and not a single English one, unless Terry Butcher is between jobs. If the Irish were marginalised to the extent that English folk who have moved here are they would be doing their dinger!

 

I would agree with most of that; not all, but most. I think the difference between our supports is the social and/or intellectual level at which the bigotry starts or stops. In my experience of Rangers fans, the real bigotry tends to die out fairly soon after you leave the realm of what I used to call knuckledraggers before I got a row from Andy.

 

The much-feared 'Chastisement by Steel'. Counselling is available!

 

This place is like a gentleman's club in comparison.

 

How cool would it be if we could raise enough money to actually hire some city centre rooms and have a real Gersnet Gentleman's Club, complete with bar, dining room, and giant screen TV? Ah, if only!