TOM ENGLISH - Brian Stockbridge improves home security

[amms 0]

This seems as good a thread as any to ask about King. So are most of us fairly comfortable with him and his possible re-involvement with Rangers?

I've been thinking about what I actually know about Dave King and realising it isn't actually very much.

 

I've heard the rags to riches story, boy from Castlemilk becomes gazillionaire.

I know he invested a substantial amount in Rangers before and lost it all.

I know he lives in South Africa.

I know he was under investigation, charged and found guilty by SA tax authorities.

I know he paid an eye-watering sum as a fine to the SA taxman.

 

What I don't know is just how much of all that is true, does anyone else?

How did he make his money? The figures I hear quoted for his tax fine are so astronomical as to actually worry me. Who has that kind of money available to pay fines? I've known some seriously wealthy people but none of them had that kind of money available, it was all tied up in businesses, property, etc. How did he become that rich?

 

If he did actually give SDM £20 mil or so for basically a seat on the board and not a not else I find myself worrying about just how astute he is. Now SDM was a master salesman and King wasn't the only guy to hand over serious money for fuck all back, but still.

 

So why don't we know more about King, if he's a Glasgow boy someone must know him or his mum/brother/next door neighbour?

 

I've read various South African business articles and they don't paint his business conduct in a great light, all off-shore tax havens and government employees on retainers. At the same time I accept that I'm no business expert in this country far less South Africa.

 

So who does know, who can put my mind at rest regarding King?

[the gunslinger 3,366]

think he paid back about 30 odd million in unpaid tax.

[Zappa 0]

This seems as good a thread as any to ask about King. So are most of us fairly comfortable with him and his possible re-involvement with Rangers?

I've been thinking about what I actually know about Dave King and realising it isn't actually very much.

 

I've heard the rags to riches story, boy from Castlemilk becomes gazillionaire.

I know he invested a substantial amount in Rangers before and lost it all.

I know he lives in South Africa.

I know he was under investigation, charged and found guilty by SA tax authorities.

I know he paid an eye-watering sum as a fine to the SA taxman.

 

What I don't know is just how much of all that is true, does anyone else?

How did he make his money? The figures I hear quoted for his tax fine are so astronomical as to actually worry me. Who has that kind of money available to pay fines? I've known some seriously wealthy people but none of them had that kind of money available, it was all tied up in businesses, property, etc. How did he become that rich?

 

If he did actually give SDM £20 mil or so for basically a seat on the board and not a not else I find myself worrying about just how astute he is. Now SDM was a master salesman and King wasn't the only guy to hand over serious money for fuck all back, but still.

 

So why don't we know more about King, if he's a Glasgow boy someone must know him or his mum/brother/next door neighbour?

 

I've read various South African business articles and they don't paint his business conduct in a great light, all off-shore tax havens and government employees on retainers. At the same time I accept that I'm no business expert in this country far less South Africa.

 

So who does know, who can put my mind at rest regarding King?

 

I was pretty much against Dave King's return to Ibrox because of his tax issues until I found out about the corruption within the SA tax authorities and I actually think that's exactly why he refused to play ball with them on their claims for certain tax issues. Personally, I think SARS officials probably discovered that they could try to bribe him on some of his tax issues (we have this case against you, but pay X amount and we'll drop it) and that's when he stopped playing ball with them.

 

Regarding his investment during David Murray's time, that was obviously more of an emotional investment than a business one. Nobody in their right mind would have done that deal (£20m for about 5%) if it wasn't an investment based on trying to help the club out.

 

The bottom line is that he invested a very large sum of cash and even if he benefited from it in some way via tax avoidance, then why should it matter? That's what's happening at most of the clubs in Europe these days with businessmen offloading some cash into an 'investment' that's essentially tax money. There's obviously a discussion on that one as to whether it's right or wrong, but it's probably a different discussion for the Footy Chat section.

 

If it wasn't for his assets being frozen I'm sure Dave King would have had something to say to Duff & Phelps about who was going to be taking over the club and back then I would have backed him 100% as I would McColl or TBK back then.

 

It's all about gut feeling and most importantly trust, so while I can't answer all of your questions about King I can say without a shadow of doubt that I trust him to do what's best for the club.

 

I actually think King's tax issues in South Africa are a massive red herring because in the current situation certain parties are trying to use those issues against him to make him out as some kind of fraudster or convicted criminal, when that's not the case at all.

[Anchorman 0]

This article seems fairly accurate:

 

"The 53-year-old is the fifth of seven children reared in Castlemilk. The son of a policeman, the struggles of early life provided him with the sense of values and sacrifice than enabled him to graduate from Glasgow University to the Institute of Chartered Accountants.

His favourite introductory aside – “I used to be an accountant but I’m all right now” – resonated when he joined the Weir Group, who transferred him to South Africa at the age of 21, whereupon a remarkable personal reinvention occurred. Beginning with an allowance of £32-per-month, he undertook a swashbuckling journey of self-discovery; becoming a financial director of a major company before his 30th birthday, taking on faltering businesses, turning them round, and selling them on at a profit.

He rose to prominence by the mid-1990s, when the new rulers of post-Apartheid South Africa grappled with unfamiliar levers of power and capitalist culture. He became an adviser to the Post Office and the Reserve Bank, then formed the Republic Ratings as an unprecedented standards agency for fledgling companies.

From there, he gravitated to Specialised Outsourcing, a corporate treasury management company. In the same year, the company won the contract to manage the treasury operations of Umgeni Water, which supplies water to the Durban and Maritzburg areas of KwaZulu Natal, and is the biggest catchment-based water supplier in South Africa.

It was at this juncture his earnings became stratospheric, while analysts first sounded alarm bells. King held a 71% stake of the company when it listed but had sold shares into the market and only had about 2% remaining by the time he left the organisation. His estimated profit was £100m before he bought the venture capital company, Legacy Ventures.

It was at this stage his affection for Rangers was consummated with the offering of a wad of cash. The roots of King’s financial commitment to Rangers has become part of Ibrox folklore. Alistair Johnston, the IMG vice-chairman and now Rangers chairman, awoke Murray at his Perthshire pile deep in the night at the turn of the millennium with the news that Gary Player’s caddy had pledged £20m to Dick Advocaat’s war chest. Convinced that a conversation had disintegrated at the 19th hole, Murray duly hung-up and returned to his slumber before dawn broke and the substance of this twilight call was confirmed.

[54andcounting 0]

If English (hailed by the green and grey) is having a pop, then on that basis alone, King is the right man for Rangers.

[pete 2,499]

If English (hailed by the green and grey) is having a pop, then on that basis alone, King is the right man for Rangers.

 

I can't understand everybody's disgust about someone dodging paying tax. Surely everybody has not been totally honest with the tax office at some time. King just did it on a larger scale. Funny how Robin Hood is a hero.

[Davie P 4]

I live in South Africa and can tell you that Dave King was basically blackmailed into settling the tax cases. The SAPS brought criminal charges against him to force him back to the negotiating table with SARS. These charges were all dropped when he settled (funny that.)

 

The bulk of DK's income was created when he listed Specialised Outsourcing on the JSE. At the time, the stock exchange was going into a bit of a bubble and DK listed and sold his shareholding at the right time. Many of his tax avoidance schemes were 100% legitimate at the time of him applying these and SARS then retrospectively amended tax laws. I am not for a second suggesting that DK is an angel and hasn't attempted to screw over the tax man (who hasn't - Neil Lennon I'm talking to you!) but he is a genuine fan who wants to see Rangers restored to the top of the tree in Scotland and to be competitive in Europe.

 

Following SDM, I was against the idea of a rich benefactor and would have loved to see fan ownership. Unfortunately, we would not be able to agree on the colour of the sky, and have now come around to believing that we probably need a benevolent dictator. If it is DK, at least I can be comforted in knowing that he only wants what is best for the club.

[aweebluesoandso 290]

I live in South Africa and can tell you that Dave King was basically blackmailed into settling the tax cases. The SAPS brought criminal charges against him to force him back to the negotiating table with SARS. These charges were all dropped when he settled (funny that.)

 

The bulk of DK's income was created when he listed Specialised Outsourcing on the JSE. At the time, the stock exchange was going into a bit of a bubble and DK listed and sold his shareholding at the right time. Many of his tax avoidance schemes were 100% legitimate at the time of him applying these and SARS then retrospectively amended tax laws. I am not for a second suggesting that DK is an angel and hasn't attempted to screw over the tax man (who hasn't - Neil Lennon I'm talking to you!) but he is a genuine fan who wants to see Rangers restored to the top of the tree in Scotland and to be competitive in Europe.

 

Following SDM, I was against the idea of a rich benefactor and would have loved to see fan ownership. Unfortunately, we would not be able to agree on the colour of the sky, and have now come around to believing that we probably need a benevolent dictator. If it is DK, at least I can be comforted in knowing that he only wants what is best for the club.

 

I can sympathize with this view Davie, i am a believer in fan participation in owning our club. Outright ownership of the club by the support i think is beyond our ken for the foreseeable future, but we can contribute to the clubs well-being, through a membership scheme that provides the support with some measure of 'Quid Pro Quo' preferable a fans representative on the board. This representation could increase to two members being on the board after a few years of money from the membership scheme being used for the benefit of the club.

 

We do substantially pay our way already as a support, but by digging a wee bit deeper the goal of outright ownership becomes just that little tiny wee bit closer imo.

[BrahimHemdani 1]

I actually think King's tax issues in South Africa are a massive red herring because in the current situation certain parties are trying to use those issues against him to make him out as some kind of fraudster or convicted criminal, when that's not the case at all.

 

He IS a convicted criminal according to the court records, see other thread.

 

The Court was moreover satisfied that the sentence agreement was just, whereupon the Court proceeded to convict the accused of the offences and sentenced the accused in accordance with the sentence agreement.

 

In terms of the agreement, the accused was sentenced to a fine of R80 000.00 or 24 months' imprisonment on each of the 41 counts, being the maximum sentence provided for in the Income Tax Act read with the Adjustment of Fines Act 101 of 1991. The effective sentence, as confirmed in the agreement, is a fine of R3 280 000.00 or 984 months (82 years) imprisonment.

[BrahimHemdani 1]

I live in South Africa and can tell you that Dave King was basically blackmailed into settling the tax cases. The SAPS brought criminal charges against him to force him back to the negotiating table with SARS. These charges were all dropped when he settled (funny that.)

 

The bulk of DK's income was created when he listed Specialised Outsourcing on the JSE. At the time, the stock exchange was going into a bit of a bubble and DK listed and sold his shareholding at the right time. Many of his tax avoidance schemes were 100% legitimate at the time of him applying these and SARS then retrospectively amended tax laws. I am not for a second suggesting that DK is an angel and hasn't attempted to screw over the tax man (who hasn't - Neil Lennon I'm talking to you!) but he is a genuine fan who wants to see Rangers restored to the top of the tree in Scotland and to be competitive in Europe.

 

Following SDM, I was against the idea of a rich benefactor and would have loved to see fan ownership. Unfortunately, we would not be able to agree on the colour of the sky, and have now come around to believing that we probably need a benevolent dictator. If it is DK, at least I can be comforted in knowing that he only wants what is best for the club.

 

I fail to see how you can say that the charges were dropped when the court records show that:

 

Mr David Cunningham King, the accused in the case of The State versus DC King (Case no.: CC257/2005 - otherwise referred to as the King 1 case), today entered a plea of guilty in the South Gauteng High Court held at Palm Ridge, on 41 counts of various contraventions of section 75 of the Income Tax Act 58 of 1962, as per the indictment.

 

 

Against that what evidence do you have to support your assertion that he was "blackmailed" by the tax authorities.