Title of Jum Spence's Fanzine?

[compo 7,228]

I think it's just a side-effect of 9IAR.

 

Many non-RFC fans hate us for our success during that period and when put alongside the kind of trash we read from Spiers et al, it makes us somewhat of a panto-villain. Unfortunately, there's nothing funny when it comes to Scottish Football nowadays.

 

Maybe its a good thing then we never managed 10iar the suicide rate would have gone through the roof or of the roof .

[Chibmark 19]

Combination of factors, I think.

 

The decline of the fanbase across the whole game to the bedrock of nutters
Access of said nutters to a mainstream media desperate to avoid dying off
Traditional loathing of our success and subsequent arrogance, for which I don't apologise
Societal change which refuses to accept 90 minute bigotry any more

 

It's the last which does us the most damage. I know that bigotry in society is a tiny issue for most folk, and that actual religion plays little or no role in it, but the perception of us through the songbook is awful (although it was certainly getting better). I know that it is weird that Rangers and only Rangers are ever highlighted for transgressing society's ever shifting boundaries, and that many doing the hounding are as guilty themselves, either now or in the past. It's also the one issue we can change easiest and quickest and leave our enemies little ammo with which to attack us.

 

As long as we maintain that the negative coverage we get is because of tims with typewriters it will continue. Sure that covers some of it, but society has moved on and some of us haven't. Result, negative coverage.

 

This is true, I cringe when I hear some of the tunes coming from the UB/TBO, especially when, from my vantage point, most of the guys appear to be 16yo. Which is especially disappointing considering that 90% of the tunes that they've come up with are catchy and non-offensive in any way. But the other 10% of tunes, coupled with political slogans and songs glorifying terrorist organisations disappoints me.

[andy steel 0]

I do bang on about this a lot and I'm sure many people are sick of it. But I'll give you one tune from Saturday, King Billy's on the Wall.

 

I'd never even heard of this until the last couple of seasons and I assume its an import from Northern Ireland, given the context. It's a perfect example of going the wrong way, though, because its completely exclusionary. As signals go it is a terrible one.

 

As for the politics, I dial it out. As you say, they're mostly weans anyway and I'm well aware of being in the minority when it comes to Rangers & politics. Haven't heard any terrorist songs, I'm glad to say.

[Chibmark 19]

I assume, perhaps wrongly, that the "YCV" is one and in that particular song, there is a line about the IRA.

 

Another unfortunate addition to the group is the presence of an Orange Order flag.

 

As you say, completely exclusionary.

[andy steel 0]

When I was younger the YCV was a flute band, the Young Calvary Volunteers. Though why they'd need a rifle or, for that matter, a pistol when tootling the flute remains unclear.

 

I had forgotten that one, to be honest. As I say, I dial it out, mostly. But to expect enemies like Spiers to do the same...

[Super_Ally 0]

It's the last which does us the most damage. I know that bigotry in society is a tiny issue for most folk, and that actual religion plays little or no role in it, but the perception of us through the songbook is awful (although it was certainly getting better). I know that it is weird that Rangers and only Rangers are ever highlighted for transgressing society's ever shifting boundaries, and that many doing the hounding are as guilty themselves, either now or in the past. It's also the one issue we can change easiest and quickest and leave our enemies little ammo with which to attack us.

 

As long as we maintain that the negative coverage we get is because of tims with typewriters it will continue. Sure that covers some of it, but society has moved on and some of us haven't. Result, negative coverage.

 

Whilst your post is pretty much spot on I dont know if I agree with the idea that if we clean up our act they will desist with attacking us or may even target other deserving targets.

 

Even if we became squeaky clean the evidence to date seems to suggest they would find other ways to blame us or start attacking parts of our identity that to any right minded individual could or should not be attacked.

 

The more we concede the more they come from.

 

The bigger issue in society is why the media, government etc dont appear to want to tackle this "problem" even handedly across the board but merely hammer one section of society that has demonstrated real attempts to change behaviours and attitudes. Perhaps if we had done what the mhanks have and insisted we were doing nothing wrong and had nothing to change then we would have been left alone.

 

Instead we have shown weakness, admitted fault and that was merely a red flag to a bull for them to come at us again and again and again. No matter what strides we take forward.

 

Until there is an even handed or sensible approach to addressing societies ills across the board there will never be a satisfactory outcome. The media and the government largely dont want to "fix" the problem. Instead they want to magnify and exaggerate the so called problem to drive a sectarianism industry to fund and finance certain bodies and friends.

[Frankie 8,665]

Excellent post S_A.

[andy steel 0]

Whilst your post is pretty much spot on I dont know if I agree with the idea that if we clean up our act they will desist with attacking us or may even target other deserving targets.

 

Even if we became squeaky clean the evidence to date seems to suggest they would find other ways to blame us or start attacking parts of our identity that to any right minded individual could or should not be attacked.

 

The more we concede the more they come from.

 

The bigger issue in society is why the media, government etc dont appear to want to tackle this "problem" even handedly across the board but merely hammer one section of society that has demonstrated real attempts to change behaviours and attitudes. Perhaps if we had done what the mhanks have and insisted we were doing nothing wrong and had nothing to change then we would have been left alone.

 

Instead we have shown weakness, admitted fault and that was merely a red flag to a bull for them to come at us again and again and again. No matter what strides we take forward.

 

Until there is an even handed or sensible approach to addressing societies ills across the board there will never be a satisfactory outcome. The media and the government largely dont want to "fix" the problem. Instead they want to magnify and exaggerate the so called problem to drive a sectarianism industry to fund and finance certain bodies and friends.

 

Much of that I agree with. Nevertheless, in order to fight back successfully you need a solid position. I think we are inches away from such a position - among the support as a whole only 'Super Rangers', containing one word, remains - and it is only very rarely, like at Berwick last year, that some fans let the club down and make a defence that bit more difficult.

 

There's little point pretending there was no fault - some of the songs had to go. We were warned over and over again to do it ourselves and when we didn't, the law was used. We can bitch about it all we like, but we had ample chance to deal with this issue and we did not do so. No use, then, crying when the grown ups skelp our arses.

 

Once that solid position is reached, why would we give any ground? Why would we take any shit from anyone, just because they are stupid haters unable to see past their Pacific Quay issue microphones? If they don't like aspects of someone's perfectly legitimate identity, expressed within the law, that's their tough fucking luck and it would be the greatest of pleasures to tell them so.

 

We get ourselves right, then we attack those who hate us, that's how I see it, not we give in, then we give in some more, then we give in some more.

[54andcounting 0]

It's always us that gets the negatives all the time no matter what the story is.

 

Last week TLB waded into the Ian Black thing and said he would find it 'very difficult' to pick a player found guilty of betting against his own team - yet he doesn't have a problem fielding the IRA sympathiser Stokes.

[Super_Ally 0]

Much of that I agree with. Nevertheless, in order to fight back successfully you need a solid position. I think we are inches away from such a position - among the support as a whole only 'Super Rangers', containing one word, remains - and it is only very rarely, like at Berwick last year, that some fans let the club down and make a defence that bit more difficult.

 

There's little point pretending there was no fault - some of the songs had to go. We were warned over and over again to do it ourselves and when we didn't, the law was used. We can bitch about it all we like, but we had ample chance to deal with this issue and we did not do so. No use, then, crying when the grown ups skelp our arses.

 

Once that solid position is reached, why would we give any ground? Why would we take any shit from anyone, just because they are stupid haters unable to see past their Pacific Quay issue microphones? If they don't like aspects of someone's perfectly legitimate identity, expressed within the law, that's their tough fucking luck and it would be the greatest of pleasures to tell them so.

 

We get ourselves right, then we attack those who hate us, that's how I see it, not we give in, then we give in some more, then we give in some more.

 

I largely agree but I think their end game is summed up by your last line. Thats what is wanted. And as they seem to be able to set the agenda how they want and distort the truth and reality how do we stop them? We need to start defending ourselves.

 

The time have huge problems but have never admitted it and have hardly been pressed on it. I'm not saying thats right, but maybe if we did that we would have less problems now, now that we are pretty clean by the standards of large groups of people gathering at sporting or even music events or whatever else.