england

[calscot 0]

So surely the TA are 'ever xenophobic' as well then...

 

Cammy F

 

Actually no, the English boo because many are xenophobic and this is just one expression of it, Scotland do it because they think it's funny when it isn't.

 

Scots generally do not act or talk to or about foreingers the same way as the English and do not act the same way abroad.

 

This is why I've heard the phrase, "Oh, you are Scottish, you are so much nicer than the English!" so often while on my travels.

 

For instance, I've never heard of the TA burning local money to wind up the up the country's citizens.

[CammyF 8,371]

Actually no, the English boo because many are xenophobic and this is just one expression of it, Scotland do it because they think it's funny when it isn't.

 

Unbelievable - how do you know this Calscot? Did you question the TA members who boo'ed anthems? The most rediculous thing I've read for a long time Calscot.

 

Scots generally do not act or talk to or about foreingers the same way as the English and do not act the same way abroad.

 

Thats the 2nd most rediculous thing I have read - I've heard Scots (and English) refer to Spaniards as 'Spicks', Pakistanis as 'Pakis' and Chinese as 'Chinks'. Not to mention the names Scots have for Jews, Muslims and blacks. I have watched Scots (and English) pishing in public abroad, I've seen Scots (and English) abuse locals, I've seen Scots (and English) steal from local shops etc.....

 

In my travels, I have met as many arses from Scotland as I have from England (and other countries). I've also met nice people from all over the world. To say England has a monopoly on idiots is just idiotic.

 

Cammy F

Cammy F

[calscot 0]

Cammy I never said England had a monopoly on idiots but don't let the truth get in the way of a good rant.

 

You must have a different experience of different nationalities than me. Although not all people from the same country are the same there does seem to be correlations about certain parts of their nature. People can be more likely to act a certain way depending on their country of origin.

 

You may not like it, but Scots definitely have a far better reputation abroad than the English, just as the Canadians have a better reputation than the Americans and the Czechs a better reputation than the Germans.

 

You may think everyone is the same but that's a pretty ridiculous way of thinking to me.

 

But Cammy you always staunchly believe what you want to believe and I know there's no way I can change your mind on any subject no matter what evidence and compelling arguments I can put forward. You come across to me as a bit of a Rab C Nesbitt who always has a bee in his bandage, and won't listen to anyone else.

 

The sad thing is that our country does have a reasonable reputation for being friendly and respectful while abroad no matter how many arseholes spoil it, but you're a Scotsman yourself and you'll try your hardest to disparage us as a nation.

[CammyF 8,371]

You may not like it, but Scots definitely have a far better reputation abroad than the English, just as the Canadians have a better reputation than the Americans and the Czechs a better reputation than the Germans.

 

Where did I say I didn't like it? I have visited Canada and US on many occassions and would say that they have an equal reputation. The vast majority of both nationalities have been decent people. I have met many decent Germans as well as Czechs. Oh, and I don't go around the world baing my opinions of others on some 'mysterious reputation'. I treat everyone equally and base my opinions on each individual no matter their nationality.

 

But Cammy you always staunchly believe what you want to believe and I know there's no way I can change your mind on any subject no matter what evidence and compelling arguments I can put forward. You come across to me as a bit of a Rab C Nesbitt who always has a bee in his bandage, and won't listen to anyone else.

 

Why would I let someone elses opinion change my viewpoint? Is your opinion any better than mine? Just because I have a differing opinion, I must be wrong? Maybe Rab C was right and maybe, you are wrong - or maybe we both are entitled to our opinions?

 

The sad thing is that our country does have a reasonable reputation for being friendly and respectful while abroad no matter how many arseholes spoil it, but you're a Scotsman yourself and you'll try your hardest to disparage us as a nation.

 

Does it? Here is your romantic Scottish image coming thro again. This wee country is a cesspit of racism. Ask the muslims, the jews, the english, the pakis (sic) and the chinks (sic) etc if we are friendly and respectful nation. If we are, why are the BNP on the rise up here? Why did the NF have its headquarters in Dundee? Why is the BNP trying to open offices in towns like Falkirk and Livingston? And why is racist crime rising 11% per year in Scotland? We, as a country are ravaged by sectarianism and racism - you might not realise it, but denying it doesn't mean its not evident to others.

 

Cammy F

[calscot 0]

I don't go around the world baing my opinions of others on some 'mysterious reputation'. I treat everyone equally and base my opinions on each individual no matter their nationality.

 

I never said you shouldn't but reputation counts and decision HAVE to made because of them unless you are very naive.

 

I myself have switched my planned trip to Pakistan to Peru as there is too much violence in the former. And I've been to 6 US cities but probably won't rush back as I've realised it's not a particularly friendly or enjoyable place. In fact it's so friendly, I've been warned against walking at night in many parts of it.

 

But most obviously the local authoritis of Germany will take into account the reputions of countries fans before deciding on what kind security strategy to put in place. I'm glad you're not in charge of that Cammy as you'd treat them all the same.

 

 

Why would I let someone elses opinion change my viewpoint?

 

An wise man is always willing to change his viewpoint if he receives a compelling enough argument or evidence. His opinions are never rigid but based on what evidence he has received and arguments that make sense to him. I'm not surprised you differ there.

 

Is your opinion any better than mine?

 

I'm not saying mine is better than yours, but I'm continually disappointed that you never listen to it. You answer my points in a way that shows you never read them properly or that you've deliberately twisted my words or jumped to conclusions just so you never need to question your fixed beliefs.

 

Just because I have a differing opinion, I must be wrong? Maybe Rab C was right and maybe, you are wrong - or maybe we both are entitled to our opinions?

 

There is a difference between holding an opinion and being opinionated. Opinions can change which is why we have the tool of debate. I have changed my opinion many times when I receive new information or a new way of looking at something. That's why I changed my mind about David Murray - partly due to some of the things you said.

 

Does it? Here is your romantic Scottish image coming thro again. This wee country is a cesspit of racism. Ask the muslims, the jews, the english, the pakis (sic) and the chinks (sic) etc if we are friendly and respectful nation. If we are, why are the BNP on the rise up here? Why did the NF have its headquarters in Dundee? Why is the BNP trying to open offices in towns like Falkirk and Livingston? And why is racist crime rising 11% per year in Scotland? We, as a country are ravaged by sectarianism and racism - you might not realise it, but denying it doesn't mean its not evident to others.

 

Cammy F

 

 

Again I have to say our country is not perfect and I know that. I believe we have a great many arseholes but that does not mean we are the worst.

 

Our fans are definitely not as bad as the English which is really the point in question. But you not only choose to believe otherwise, you are on a mission to make people believe that our fans are that bad when they are clearly not.

 

here is part of a report on:

http://www.crimeinfo.org.uk/servlet/factsheetservlet?command=viewfactsheet&factsheetid=104&category=factsheets

 

As in England, hooliganism is present in other parts of the world

 

In Scotland the hooligan element is not as strong as the one in England. Although there are some acts of hooliganism, it is mainly between rival fans from clubs such as Celtic, Rangers, Hibernian and Hearts. In the case of Celtic and Rangers, there is always the issue of sectarianism – Protestants against Catholics.

With regards to the national team – the Tartan Army are renowned for their friendliness.

In Scandinavia the problem became bad in the 1980s and the most notorious hooligan group is IFK Goteborg from Sweden.

The scale of hooliganism in Scandinavia is less severe than England’s.

As in Scotland, supporters of the Danish national team (‘rooligans’) are well-known for their friendly behaviour.

In Italy, hooliganism is fast becoming a political problem which is organised and racially motivated. Instead of firms, the Italians have ‘ultras’.

 

 

But of course you know better and you'll spout sproradic unrelated incidents by individuals to try and prove it.

[colshy18 0]

Because there is always someone who always asks the question. Which is getting a bit pathetic now.

 

Why should anyone bar and Englishman/woman support England?

 

As for some English supporting Scotland, big deal. Some Scots do support England. Why the fuckig Hoo Haa.... every fucking time we fail to qualify they always stick the guilt trip on us.... sorry but I am adult enough to know who I want to support - Rangers and Scotland are my teams...

 

No wonder your confused Colsh, because you get the smae answer every time and you don't really like that do you!

 

think your confused your self.

 

it wasn`t me who asked this question, so check back and check what your sayinng.

[colshy18 0]

Colshy i'm begining to agree with everybody on here, YOU'RE A NUTTER...!!!!.

If i want to go on about anything i will, i suppose i could ask your permision first.......!!!!!! NOT.Try and be constructive not an arsehole but i suppose that's just asking too much.

 

uh huh.

 

nearly missed that one ianbhoy.

 

seems to me you don`t go on about anything cause your too infatuated with going on about me.

 

what a knob.

 

i`m the nutter yet it`s you who posts pics of me on your avator?

 

seems to me i`ve got a stalker problem here. so, it`s clear that you are the nutter who is fixated with my superstardom.

 

who`s telling me to be constructive? ianbhoy? the guy that puts pics of people up to try get brownie points out of acting like a child?

 

fer fucks sake, my 4 year old has done something more creative than that at nursery!!

 

take yer time on yer next reply erm..ia....ian? is that yer name, don`t know cause nobody knows you anyway. when did you join again? can`t remember just like i can`t remember when i last scraped shit off my shoe:rolleyes:

[Frankie 8,651]

I put the pic on his avatar for a laugh colshy...

 

And Ian ain't no bhoy and I know him rather well. He was trying to have a wee laugh at your expense.

 

No need for the personal abuse chaps.

[CammyF 8,371]

I myself have switched my planned trip to Pakistan to Peru as there is too much violence in the former. And I've been to 6 US cities but probably won't rush back as I've realised it's not a particularly friendly or enjoyable place. In fact it's so friendly, I've been warned against walking at night in many parts of it.

 

I can you name 6 areas in Glasgow / Edinburgh that locals would tell you to avoid at night. What does this prove? I have been to New York, New Jersey, San Fran, Los Angeles, Vegas and all over Florida and off course there are areas that are best avoided, just like there are areas of ALL countries that are best avoided.

 

An wise man is always willing to change his viewpoint if he receives a compelling enough argument or evidence. His opinions are never rigid but based on what evidence he has received and arguments that make sense to him. I'm not surprised you differ there.

 

Very true but if someone said to you - 'Ive just been up to that shithole called Scotland. I was mugged 3 times, received a 'Glasgow kiss' and was racially abused'. Would that change your opinons of Scotland and the Scottish people? When it comes to people, I always see the best in them. I judge people on how they treat me, how the act, how the behave on an individual basis. There is no other way to live your life unless you want to generalise entire nations on SOMEONE elses opinion. IMHO, that is very narrow-minded.

 

But most obviously the local authoritis of Germany will take into account the reputions of countries fans before deciding on what kind security strategy to put in place. I'm glad you're not in charge of that Cammy as you'd treat them all the same.

 

Very interesting point - Chick Young did a piece from the WC last night for Reporting Scotland and was basically saying that the German authorities were standing down Police officers as there had been very little trouble. He interviewed a female Police Officer and asked her about the 'English treoublemakers'. She replied that only 2 English fans had been detained and they were both for drink related offences. So, I would say that the English reputation that you are potraying isn't being seen by the German Authorities.

 

I'm not saying mine is better than yours, but I'm continually disappointed that you never listen to it. You answer my points in a way that shows you never read them properly or that you've deliberately twisted my words or jumped to conclusions just so you never need to question your fixed beliefs.

 

Why should I if it goes against all the evidence I have seen for myself in my life? You obviously doen't listen to mine (on this topic), yet I've to listen to yours???? As for jumping to conclusions, I haven't - you have said that the English fans are more violent than the Scots and the fact that 15 people have been MURDERED at OF games doesn't changed your opinion implies that you have an agenda and that no matter THE FACTS, your opinion won't change (oh, and what exactly is a 'Glasgow Kiss' and why is it called a 'Glasgow Kiss'.). Did you watch the Lee Sharpe program prior to the World Cup about violence? If you did, you will see that a factual program displelled myth that England fans are anywhere near the worst for violence. But like you say, why let the TRUTH and FACTS get in the way of a rant.

 

There is a difference between holding an opinion and being opinionated. Opinions can change which is why we have the tool of debate. I have changed my opinion many times when I receive new information or a new way of looking at something. That's why I changed my mind about David Murray - partly due to some of the things you said.

 

Everyone is opinionated on certain topics, especailly when it is about personal experiences. I can only go on the people I have met and I will say it again, I have met as many arses from Scotland as I have from other countries and nothing anyone says will change that opinion. Now, if I meet a group of English arseholes on this years break, then off course that will alter my perception. I too have had my opinion changed by you and many other posters on certain topics.

 

Again I have to say our country is not perfect and I know that. I believe we have a great many arseholes but that does not mean we are the worst.

When have I ever said we were the worst? Where have I ever indicated that we are worse than anyone else? All I have continually said, and will continue to say is that we have as mant arseholes as anyone else. And that includeds football fans...

 

Our fans are definitely not as bad as the English which is really the point in question. But you not only choose to believe otherwise, you are on a mission to make people believe that our fans are that bad when they are clearly not.

 

So 15 murders doesn't register on your scale of offensiveness and violence at football? Scotland casuals getting refused entry into France doesn't show that we have fans looking for trouble? The organised fights at the last Scotland v England internationals was all down to the English? The Scottish casuals wrecking a pub prior to the WC was all Englands fault? Ask people who follow Scotland Calscot and they will confirm that the Hibs, Aberdeen, Hearts, Dundee Unity etc casuals are all present at the BIG games - and I'll bet they aren't there for a picnic.

 

In Scotland the hooligan element is not as strong as the one in England. Although there are some acts of hooliganism, it is mainly between rival fans from clubs such as Celtic, Rangers, Hibernian and Hearts. In the case of Celtic and Rangers, there is always the issue of sectarianism – Protestants against Catholics.

With regards to the national team – the Tartan Army are renowned for their friendliness.

In Scandinavia the problem became bad in the 1980s and the most notorious hooligan group is IFK Goteborg from Sweden.

The scale of hooliganism in Scandinavia is less severe than England’s.

As in Scotland, supporters of the Danish national team (‘rooligans’) are well-known for their friendly behaviour.

In Italy, hooliganism is fast becoming a political problem which is organised and racially motivated. Instead of firms, the Italians have ‘ultras’.

 

Is it? Why then do Spurs, Chelsea, Man U, Man City, Millwall, Wrexham, Swansea and other English hooligan firms regularly travel up to Scotland to team up with Rangers, Craptic, Aberdeen, Hibs, Motherwell,Hearts etc for some action? Why to these English and Welsh firms now follow Scottish clubs in Europe?

 

Why doen't you read Cass Tennents excellent ICF and 'Top Boys' book and see how violent the casual scene is up here. Now, this is the ICF's top lad who has travelled the world with West Ham and England and cites his encounters with Scotland (well, it was Rangers really) as his most violent.

 

Why don't you read about him being invited to Bradford with Rangers and his experiences and tales of that day - these were printed in GQ. Now, he states that there was no trouble and that he had a brilliant day - but I don't want to cloud your judgement - read the article and see what you think.

 

Another Englsih top boy tells of being invited to an OF game at Parkhead and he spent the day at The Louden (next street up from Parkhead) and stated it was worse than a Millwall Chelsea game.

 

Watch Lee Sharpes program on world hooligans then you'll understand that the English and the Scottish are amateurs when compared to the Italians, Dutch, German, Turkish, Balkan and South American 'firms'. These guys are based on race, religion, drug cartels and are usually armed with guns at games.

 

In the late 60's and early 70's Scottish fans were feared the world over. Rangers are still the only team to 'take' the Stretford End at Old Trafford and do I really need to go into the Birmingham and Chesterfield stories? And that is just Rangers, other top scottish teams have the same list of shame. As do the Scotland international fans - every 2 years they would wreck England at the Home Internationals.

 

In the 80's Aberdeen and Hibs casuals regularly took on English firms, in their own back yard and would 'win'. Both still have a huge casual following and both still have major rucks at domestic and international games.

 

The last OF game saw Rangers see off Craptic and Wrexham casuals before and after the game. This is been a 4 * yearly event now for the last 2 or 3 years. They will either meet on the outskirts of town, or they will meet in the city centre. IIRC, last year, the Merchant City was wrecked and brought to a standstill thanks to rioting OF fans.

 

There is now a growing number of casuals in Scotland and Rangers have their 'boys' as well. Just because the violence rarely errupt at the ground doesn't mean that it doesn't happen

 

Cammy F

[colshy18 0]

bloody hell, yous two had dictionary`s for breakfast?