Rhys McCabe might have left Rangers, but they have not left him

[simplythebest 0]

I don't think many people have gone through what the Rangers staff have in the past 6 months. Just think what we as fans have gone through and then factor in that it's also your job. Still run of the mill everyday stuff to you?

 

My personal opinion on this has got nothing to do with whether I trust Green or not. I'm actually starting to warm to the guy. I don't belive every word that leaves his mouth, but I do think he's starting to get a feel for the job.

 

I also still don't agree with the decision those players made. I called them deserters at the time and I stand by that. I don't agree they deserve to shoulder all the blame and to be accused of acting out of greed alone though.

That process was, like I said they'd be getting paid in full or the deal was invalid.

 

We just have to agree to disagree there, for me it was a simple decision to help the club out by hanging around a little longer and I cannot forgive.

[simplythebest 0]

So you think there was no communication between the players and the management or coaching staff? I've seen it reported that John Fleck tried to make contact with McCoist but was unable to reach him, I don't know if that's true or not. However I find it very hard to believe that those players had no contact with McCoist, Durrant or McDowall at all over the summer. I believe that those three could not and would not tell the players to stay because they didn't know what was going to happen themselves.

 

You must accept that the relationship between McCoist and Green was strained until very recently? For McCoist to retain any credibility with players he'd need to tell them the truth, or a version of it, that he believed. Bloody hell until very recently he was telling supporters he couldn't ask them to buy season tickets because he didn't know what the future held.

 

I wish all the players who left us well, I hope that one day in the future some of them might return. I think McGregor for example will return on a Bosman in 2 years time, I think that is why he signed such a short contract in Turkey. Our club was a mess, it wasn't the players who did that, the real vilains are still at large, your anger is misdirected in my opinion.

They claim no-one talked to them so you have to assume that includes the management as well. There's no way Ally would not rather have seen the club get transfer fees, he TUPE'd himself and he'd have wanted them to do the same even if he couldn't expect them to play in the third division. Of course we weren't sure what was going to happen but I don't get why some talk about TUPE like some sort of prison where the players may not get paid, they NEED to get paid in full for it to be valid and nobody could seriously think a club with no league was going to be putting several million price tags on players, and that's forgetting the release clauses already there anyway.

 

It may have been but a chief executive is not bigger than the club and there's no way McCoist would believe this. As for season tickets, there is a world of difference between asking ordinary hard working people to put up their earnings to something so uncertain and asking millionaires to hang around for a week or two still getting paid a fortune.

 

Again can only agree to disagree, won't go as far as wishing injuries but I wish them every possible failure at their clubs and if it was up to me they'd not even be let into Ibrox as spectators.

[Super_Ally 0]

I think that you are missing something.

 

If you're referring to Naismith, then he could have transferred across and then gone to Everton which would have been straightforward due to the minimum release clause in his renegotiated contract. However that would have resulted in more money for the club and less for him so he didn't do it.

 

Who's to say Everton or whoever would still have come in for him if they had to pay a fee. Yeh, someone probably still would have. But if its a choice between a definite and an unknown what would most people do.

 

Naismith didn't know anything about the people coming into the club and by all accounts the players weren't being kept up to date. More worrying time for them with their jobs on the line.

 

As I say, talking from an uneducated position and may be missing some of it.

 

Interesting to note that you may well have acted the same and understand the full sentiment of your last line.

[UCF2008 0]

This would be the same Ally McCoist who still TUPE'd himself? And i'm sure he said at the time that the players should not insult the fans by pretending how upset they were to be leaving.

 

On the Friday, just over a week after he himself threatened to quit, Ally McCoist issued an official press release in response to reports that 2 players (McCabe & Alluko) had refused to TUPE. Those two were to be the first of many. In that statement he asked for any players leaving to be honest with the fans.

 

Ally McCoist says no player has told him they intend to reject a transfer of their contract from the old Rangers FC to a new company.

 

Forward Sone Aluko will not be joining the newco Rangers and a number of first team stars are set to follow suit.

 

Manager McCoist said he was disappointed the players had not told him they intended to leave while the old club is liquidated and a new club set up in its place.

 

Speaking on the official Rangers FC website, McCoist said: "It has been reported that a couple of players have indicated they want to challenge the transfer of their contracts. This is news to me and no player has spoken to me about it.

 

"At all times during my first year as manager, I strived to show players respect and in return would have hoped they would have shown me, and more importantly the club, respect by notifying us of their intentions before making it known elsewhere.”

 

In a passionate address to fans, McCoist questioned the players’ intentions and said they should not expect the sympathy of Rangers supporters.

 

McCoist added: “If players want to leave and play somewhere else then they should be honest with the Rangers supporters.

 

"I don't want Rangers fans to be reading over the next few days how devastated players are about having to go. The fans deserve better than that. They are not daft.

 

"I already know there are agents touting my players all over the United Kingdom, so let's be brutally honest. We are in a difficult situation and the contracts issue has given some players and agents the belief they can use it to leave the club.”

 

Players’ contracts are being transferred to the newco under Transfer of Undertakings Protection of Employment (TUPE). Charles Green, whose consortium is establishing the new club, believes the players cannot walk away from the contracts but player union chief Fraser Wishart has stated that the players can object to it.

 

Mr Green will meet with the PFA on Monday and said: "The transfer of contracts has already happened and the club's clear legal advice is that players' purported objection is ineffective.

 

"Rangers would like to make it abundantly clear to players, agents and the chairmen and managers of other football clubs that we will take whatever steps necessary to challenge what we regard as a breach of contract to protect the interests of our club."

 

Source: STV

 

What you speculate is that exact point i'm making, with TUPE you NEED to be paid your full salary, if you aren't paid your full salary i'm certain sure you can walk away anyway. It is not some sort of prison mechanism, it has to be done correctly on both sides.

 

I agree that it has to be done correctly on both sides. My point is that it sadly wasn't.

 

Green was publically saying the opposite to the PFA regarding the players TUPE rights and threatening recourse should they go. Meanwhile he had just sent the players a letter which halfway through a calendar month was threatening their right to object to TUPE should they accept their wage. Do you think that was the correct way of doing things?

 

Like I said, i'm not at all convinced that footballers suddenly started caring about the identity of ownership, so long as they're getting paid correctly I cannot see it mattering.

 

You clearly don't have any concerns about who owns the club, so why shoul the players? Am I right?

Edited August 22, 2012 by UCF2008

[foggy dewhurst 0]

mccabe was a deserter allong with the rest who ran away they cost the club mucch neede money i for one would never wellcome any of them back at ibrox .

[simplythebest 0]

You clearly don't have any concerns about who owns the club, so why shoul the players? Am I right?

No, i'm saying I doubt footballers ever do concern themselves with who owns the club. Do you think Man City's signings demand to hear all about the Sheiks and Arabs involved? Not a chance, they're getting offered the money they want and that is that.

[simplythebest 0]

Who's to say Everton or whoever would still have come in for him if they had to pay a fee. Yeh, someone probably still would have. But if its a choice between a definite and an unknown what would most people do.

 

Naismith didn't know anything about the people coming into the club and by all accounts the players weren't being kept up to date. More worrying time for them with their jobs on the line.

 

As I say, talking from an uneducated position and may be missing some of it.

 

Interesting to note that you may well have acted the same and understand the full sentiment of your last line.

A player has a very big problem if a club won't pay something like 300k for them in today's market, especially when that can pretty much be made up by just reducing the signing on fee, you really think their agents couldn't have sorted that out? There's a tribunal going on to determine if we're entitled to money from Everton so they may need to pay something anyway, but that's no thanks to Naismith.

 

As i've mentioned already, when have players ever been given dossiers on the boardroom when signing or when there's a takeover? They'd have known fine well the issues the club were dealing with at that time, if they wanted to talk so badly why were they not in Ibrox banging down the office doors? As a matter of fact I don't even see what there was to tell them that we didn't all know. Don't see what jobs on the line has to do with anything considering TUPE protects jobs.

 

It's pure and simple greed, it's shame some believe their lies.

[UCF2008 0]

It's pure and simple greed, it's shame some believe their lies.

 

It's not a case of believing anyone's lies. There were a lot of different factors contributing to the players deciding to stay or go. It's not all black & white. Money was without a doubt a large incentive in some cases a lot more than others.

 

I don't think any of the players appreciated being left in the dark. Even Lee McCulloch was commenting on that while committing himself fully to the club. I think several of the players who opted to leave would have TUPE'd if the club had handled things differently. I think a couple of them would even have stayed if we were in the SPL or Div1. Ironically imo the two most likely candidates on that front would have been the first two who refused to TUPE, McCabe and Aluko.

 

Some of the players do deserve more criticism than others. Naismith made several ill advised comments in his leaving statement for instance, some of which are still being dragged up as ammunition for our enemies. However, one thing worth pointing out in terms of their refusal to give us the chance of a fee is that these guys aren't exactly the first to do so. Otherwise we would be similarly vilifying the likes of Boyd and Miller. Did they not deny us the opportunity to receive a nominal fee afterall?

[simplythebest 0]

It's not a case of believing anyone's lies. There were a lot of different factors contributing to the players deciding to stay or go. It's not all black & white. Money was without a doubt a large incentive in some cases a lot more than others.

 

I don't think any of the players appreciated being left in the dark. Even Lee McCulloch was commenting on that while committing himself fully to the club. I think several of the players who opted to leave would have TUPE'd if the club had handled things differently. I think a couple of them would even have stayed if we were in the SPL or Div1. Ironically imo the two most likely candidates on that front would have been the first two who refused to TUPE, McCabe and Aluko.

 

Some of the players do deserve more criticism than others. Naismith made several ill advised comments in his leaving statement for instance, some of which are still being dragged up as ammunition for our enemies. However, one thing worth pointing out in terms of their refusal to give us the chance of a fee is that these guys aren't exactly the first to do so. Otherwise we would be similarly vilifying the likes of Boyd and Miller. Did they not deny us the opportunity to receive a nominal fee afterall?

We did get a nominal fee for Miller, that was the point of selling him mid way through a title challenge. Boyd saw out a contract, in hindsight it may have been better to sell him sooner but the guy couldn't be forced to leave and he honoured his deal end of the day. The point of all this is that these guys walked on out contracts, contracts that had been edited to allow them to leave for way below their market value.

 

We can go round in circles with this so we better agree to disagree at some point, I simply don't believe that 'being left in the dark' and such things had any true influence, I simply believe the money was chased rather than helping the club out. Charles Green himself was in the dark about many things going on at that time, that was just the situation we were in but they only had to hang around a bit longer.

[UCF2008 0]

We did get a nominal fee for Miller, that was the point of selling him mid way through a title challenge. Boyd saw out a contract, in hindsight it may have been better to sell him sooner but the guy couldn't be forced to leave and he honoured his deal end of the day. The point of all this is that these guys walked on out contracts, contracts that had been edited to allow them to leave for way below their market value.

 

Agreed on Miller and Boyd. Also, if it turns out that the PFA and the countless employment advisers & specialists who've chimed in on the subject of the contracts and TUPE rights were wrong and we win compensation for the likes of Naismith then I agree that there is a difference between that and what happenned with the likes of Boyd, Novo, Lovenkrands etc.

 

We can go round in circles with this so we better agree to disagree at some point.

 

Absolutely and sorry if it seems like I'm picking on you for an argument mate. Was enjoying the debate myself tbh, but I'm fine with leaving it at that.