Ian Black called up to Scotland squad

[simplythebest 0]

Of course it's one sided but you cannot argue with history. It is the oldest international rivalry in the world football. We may not have the platform to play these games anymore but I for one can remember the build up to the England being one of the highlights of the season.

 

And for the record' date=' this "one sided" rivalry has a pretty even stat breakdown. From the 110 games, England have won 45 and Scotland have won 41[/quote']

One sided in terms of who actually sees it as a rivalry I mean, comparing it to Rangers and Celtic seems flawed because the hatred is huge and probably about the same from both sides there. Do England fans really feel as strongly against the Scottish national team as the Scots do theirs?

[kuznetsov 0]

Any Scot who wants England to do well must have an incredibly thick skin. To me, it's a bit like wanting Celtic to win all their games in the SPL because like us, they are from Glasgow.

 

Fair enough, support a GB team as that includes us - and is like supporting Scotland even if it is mostly made up of Celtic players, but supporting your local and biggest rivals who are also the country which holds yours in the most contempt and are your biggest insulters, is a very strange to me.

 

Basically England is to Scotland as Celtic is to Rangers.

 

that is just utter nonsense. the rivalry is completely different in every aspect.

[Ergatrude 0]

I won't support England, but I also won't support Scotland any time in the near future. How can I support a club controlled by a governing body who has done nothing but kick us to the floor at every chance? Not just the past year.. but no favours were done in the past either, UEFA 2008 anyone?

 

Not supporting Scotland doesn't mean I support England. I am still Scottish, & proud of that fact.

 

I do, however, think it would be funny to fill the England home end at Wembley next year wearing Rangers tops.

[calscot 0]

I don't see that, the 'rivalry' is incredibly one sided, no way do England fans have as much desperation for Scotland to fail as the other way round. Never come across 'anyone but Scotland' campaigns for example.

 

I would say that's because we actually have far more respect for them as a team and nation than they do for us, and their attitude comes out as incredible arrogance.

 

The don't give a shit what we do in the results and yet take a great amount of time and pleasure in telling us how crap and irrelevant we are both as an International team and also our clubs - including Rangers, and how they are the best in the world in all things football. They also laugh a lot at us when we lose or don't qualify.

 

Now if Celtic fans started acting like that seeing as we're in the third division, would you feel the same about them as you do the English?

 

You're saying you'd like Celtic more if they stopped seeing us as rivals and seen us as an irrelevance and "Mickey Mouse" and stopped paying any attention to us except in high profiles games that we lose?

 

If that happens will you look to any East of Glasgow or Catholic ancestry to have them as your second team?

 

I don't think you've really thought this through.

 

I don't know how someone in contempt of you makes them more likeable than someone who has animosity against you as an equal rival...

[calscot 0]

I do, however, think it would be funny to fill the England home end at Wembley next year wearing Rangers tops.

 

The trouble with a lot of these "wouldn't it be funny" ideas is that usually, it wouldn't... They would probably just see us as a bunch of subservient Uncle Toms.

 

It's a bit like their, "Wouldn't it be funny if we went to Ibrox with a load of ice cream and jelly and fireworks?"

 

You rarely get one over on people with these type of "pranks", you end up just looking a bit sad.

[andy steel 0]

There is definitely a generational aspect to this; anyone over the age of 30 grew up with the Scotland-England being on every year, and it certainly was a rivalry felt on both sides, helped by the number of Jocks in the English leagues. There's no way to simply say 'ah well, that's all over now' just because the English see France, or Germany, or whoever, as more of a rival.

[simplythebest 0]

I would say that's because we actually have far more respect for them as a team and nation than they do for us, and their attitude comes out as incredible arrogance.

 

The don't give a shit what we do in the results and yet take a great amount of time and pleasure in telling us how crap and irrelevant we are both as an International team and also our clubs - including Rangers, and how they are the best in the world in all things football. They also laugh a lot at us when we lose or don't qualify.

 

Now if Celtic fans started acting like that seeing as we're in the third division, would you feel the same about them as you do the English?

 

You're saying you'd like Celtic more if they stopped seeing us as rivals and seen us as an irrelevance and "Mickey Mouse" and stopped paying any attention to us except in high profiles games that we lose?

 

If that happens will you look to any East of Glasgow or Catholic ancestry to have them as your second team?

 

I don't think you've really thought this through.

 

I don't know how someone in contempt of you makes them more likeable than someone who has animosity against you as an equal rival...

 

Celtic fans are never going to see us that way however much they claim, we're a 'dead club' in the third division yet the top discussion on their forums are still about us. They'll be praying for us to screw up these lower divisions while considering the senario we could be back challenging them as quickly as three years, not to mention getting themselves in a rage about things like Green speaking out.

 

I take your point but especially considering what has gone on with us I don't feel very protective of scottish football right now nor do feel I can blame anyone for seeing it as a laughing stock. In an ideal world i'd have seen Rangers join the English pyramid (that's simply with it being the closest other location, nothing to do with pro-English views) but it was never going to happen and the SFL is the best home we could have hoped for.

 

I just don't see international football the same way as club football, half my family are english and the rivalry was never encouraged being brought up, my english parent (dad) even came along to a Scotland game with us once. Club you support isn't a nationality nor is a city a country, so the idea that I could feel the same way about Celtic doesn't add up at all.

 

Fact is for me at international tournaments there's no-one else I feel more identity with than England, apart from maybe the US at the World Cup because it's been a long and loved holiday destination nothing else really comes close. I don't see how I can cheer on countries like Germany that I have no connection with against a fellow British nation and one I have family ties with.

Edited August 16, 2012 by simplythebest

[Blue Moon 1,565]

I don't know how someone in contempt of you makes them more likeable than someone who has animosity against you as an equal rival...

 

I take people as I find them and have never had a problem with English folk in general.

 

Usually I start off supporting them, unless Scotland or one of the other home nations are playing against them, but when I listen to the commentators their arrogance gets to me and invariably I end up wanting to see them beaten.

 

Personally, I have never understood why I should support foreign countries ahead of one of the home nations.

 

I am finding it hard to suport Scotland at the moment but would never become an England supporter or wear an England shirt.

 

With Celtic that is entirely different.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Blue Moon

[Ergatrude 0]

The trouble with a lot of these "wouldn't it be funny" ideas is that usually, it wouldn't... They would probably just see us as a bunch of subservient Uncle Toms.

 

It's a bit like their, "Wouldn't it be funny if we went to Ibrox with a load of ice cream and jelly and fireworks?"

 

You rarely get one over on people with these type of "pranks", you end up just looking a bit sad.

 

While I agree with the sentiments of what you are saying Cal, it does seem as though it is Scotland Vs. Rangers. It would be good to have Rangers Vs. Scotland for a change, & what better way to achieve it than at the home of our arch enemies. Plus.. I bet with a bit of promotion, there would be more Rangers fans there than Scotland fans.

[Steve1872 4]

Ronnie Esplin‏@RonnieEsplin

The Association of Tartan Army Clubs have tonight condemned those Scotland fans who booed Scotland midfielder Ian Black

One of guiding principles of the Tartan Army is that when we come together club allegiances are put to the side...."

"It is therefore regrettable that a small section of the Scotland support chose to forget this and booed Ian when he took to the field..."

Given this was Ian’s full debut, an occasion he described as the pinnacle of his career, these actions are especially disappointing."