Is Ally the Man for the job? - The McCoist Thread

[CumbernauldGers 0]

 

Out of curiosity, how much money has McCoist been given by Green ? All of our signings have been freebies have they not ? So if we cut PLG slack for not being given money then the same applies to McCoist, no ?

 

I take this is a joke mate?

 

We have been signing good SPL players in Div3. I really hope you were just jokeing.

[craig 5,199]

 

Out of curiosity, how much money has McCoist been given by Green ? All of our signings have been freebies have they not ? So if we cut PLG slack for not being given money then the same applies to McCoist, no ?

 

I take this is a joke mate?

 

We have been signing good SPL players in Div3. I really hope you were just jokeing.

 

Read it again CG.

 

I know they are good SPL players, my question was have we paid any fees ? They have all been freebies so far have they not ? It is a genuine question, dont see it as being something sinister because there isnt.

[CumbernauldGers 0]

 

Read it again CG.

 

I know they are good SPL players, my question was have we paid any fees ? They have all been freebies so far have they not ? It is a genuine question, dont see it as being something sinister because there isnt.

 

You cant compare the 2 at all, Ally has went into this season with nearly a full team of international players and on top of that he has added top SPL players, he has more resources than the whole of Div3,2 and 1 combined.

[craig 5,199]

Injured one, the sold one wouldn't have made the least bit of difference to the rest of the season.

 

So Healy was a like for like replacement with Jelavic ? come on now Allan....

 

That said our season definitely went south at Pittodrie with that injury

[craig 5,199]

Lets refrain from personal insults please gents.

[CumbernauldGers 0]

Lets refrain from personal insults please gents.

 

What was it mate? I dont think it was me was it?

[craig 5,199]

 

You cant compare the 2 at all, Ally has went into this season with nearly a full team of international players and on top of that he has added top SPL players, he has more resources than the whole of Div3,2 and 1 combined.

 

Never mind CG. I am not trying to compare anything, but am merely asking a question.

 

Can somebody please confirm we havent spent anything on transfer fees ?

[kuznetsov 0]

As I said, in a manager's first season, especially BEFORE he has sorted his team, you can't judge really him on cup games. They are too unpredictable and so you need to judge him on that over several seasons. It's the league that shows where abouts you are as it is not about one of games.

 

McCoist did not have the most easiest of starts - very early games against the champions of countries of similar size to use, one of which was already in the middle of its season. There is a pattern here where we lose in these type of games that has been shown by Eck and Walter also: if you don't have a settled team and don't get your new players in early, you can struggle. McCoist did not have a settled team, we lost two many players - you said yourself that he had to sign nine but most of those did not arrive till after we were out. Add in injury, lack of fitness and players who were not back till late from international duty and you have an unprepared side.

 

I think our preseason showed that we weren't in shape. You may want to blame Ally for that but that's like complain a chef's cake is shit when he hasn't got all the ingredients and you take it out of the oven too early. There is only so much you can influence.

 

A large budget counts for nothing if you don't spend it on time - and when you don't get to spend it on what you think you need and get second rate products instead.

 

 

 

You seem to base management on how well you do in Europe in your first season - you are one of very few. How well you do in a cup competition depends on the draw and how well you play in those one off games. If that was the sign of the best team then the Scottish cup would be more important than the championship.

 

PLG did OK in Europe, not spectacularly but OK. However, his performance the the MAIN competition, the one that really counts was very poor - and if McCoist had done that badly I'd have wanted him to go too.

 

I take it you thought Eck's last season was successful because we reached the CL knockout stage even though we finished third in the league?

 

 

 

Making excuses are we? Thought that wasn't allowed? Is it not the manager's job to get the players playing for him? Isn't that one of the most basic skills of a manager? PLG brought in most of new team and had more money at his disposal than he spent. However, he didn't research Scottish football or culture, he didn't learn to communicate well in English and he brought three other Frenchmen as part of his coaching team. It's another thread but the guy got it spectacularly wrong and then walked away at the first opportunity.

 

He was our WORST manager in our 140 year history. He also committed the crime of being out of both cups* before they really started and one of them to a lower division side. So he failed spectacularly in all THREE domestic competitions but he did OK in Europe so was a good manager?

 

(* I know one was after he left but as it was the first game, I attribute it to him.)

 

 

 

McCoist has not had a proper shot at Europe with his own settled team as explained above, but he HAS shown that given that team, and without the biggest off-field problems our club has ever seen, he can do a job. Something Le Guen showed nothing of the sort on the park.

 

 

 

Now you're showing not that you have no logic behind what you say. Despite a ten point deduction, an off-field melt down, players having their contracts negotiated down to 25%, you think McCoist should have won the league? I'm sorry but you don't even seem sane to me. But the kicker is that if you lose the dressing room and are 17 points behind, that's ok as long as you have a wee run in Europe?

 

Buy your standards for Ally, PLG should have been AT LEAST 17points AHEAD at the halfway point.

 

 

 

You do for PLG don't you? But if you don't get the psychological side of things then you really don't understand humans or sport. They are not robots or computer games. How well will you work if forced to take a 75% pay cut or in fact not even know if you're going to be paid? This is the problem with the Anti-Ally stuff, there is just no wisdom in it whatsoever.

 

 

 

A year when we are put out of business and finish second is being patient? Wow!

 

I've no idea which part of my post you're rebutting with your next few paragraphs so will edit them out.

 

 

 

No it's just my conclusion. I suppose I went through the same thing with Walter Smith. I didn't think he was spectacular but seemed to be doing a job and deserved time. Then he did a fantastic job. I've been pretty consistent and have the same criteria for all managers and know when they have to go - I felt that way for Advocaat, Eck and PLG due to their league results.

 

When you compare the money they all had, Advocaat should at least have been challenging for the title every season and not finish more than a few points behind at worst.

 

Eck should at have least be finishing within touching distance of Celtic and definitely ahead of Hearts.

 

PLG should have at the very, very, very worst, less than 10 points behind Celtic at the halfway stage.

 

Walter Smith was cheated out of his first title and won the next three, job done.

 

McCoist could only be expected to finish second under the circumstances and he did that comfortably - definitely good enough.

 

But I don't see how you can make a judgement on ANY manager under those circumstances. The very least you could do is give Ally a full season where we are not going out of business - and asking for perfection is ludicrous, especially from someone who obviously doesn't hold himself to even average standards.

 

sorted his team? he had a double winning squad, there was not much sorting needing done. league is the test because it suits your argument i see. eck and walter were both poor managers in europe, very poor comparisons tbh. their countries maybe of similar size but the clubs we faced certainly were not even close to being similar size to ours. again, that excuse and comparison does not work. i didnt say he had to sign 9, i said he was given 9, all of whom he wanted. we certainly didnt need them all as was proven with a few of them not kicking a ball. the rest is more excuses every club has to contend with. then better not to spend it at all then, no? especiallly when it wasnt necessary.

 

no i dont, it just so happens first impressions last and count and european qualifiers come around early in football seasons, i base management on what i see on the park and from a long term strategy being played out, plg was by no means a good rangers manager but i think with his time at lyon and previous spell at rennes, he had a proven tack record of being a football manager, good or bad, he was a football manager, something ally never had and never was. plg gave scottish football its first ever victory on italian soil, did he not? he had us playing well in europe, he just couldnt handle the blood and snotters of the spl hammer throwers. ecks last season we qualified from our group with the lowest ever points total i think, those two matches v villarreal were certainly one offs that year, we were immense in both matches. it was the start of that season which lost us second place, by the time the villarreal match came along we were doing ok in the league results wise, only 2 defeats from xmas to may.

 

again, i didnt say it wasnt allowed, i said they were being rolled out at every chance in support of ally. yes and he tried but too many players were against what he wanted to do. why attribute that him? again, because it suits? he wasnt here, it had nothing to do with him. the players should have been buzzing they got shot of him., that one match, that one chance blue and white had, he also made a total mess of, he should never have been in charge not even temporarily, it was yet another murray mistake. durrant was not and is not good enough to caretake or manage any football team never mind rangers!

 

i have to disagree mate, plain and simple, i do not agree.

 

yes, we should have. administration didnt lose the league, our collapse in november and december did.

 

again, admin didnt happen until february, we crumbled long before those cuts, months before in fact.

 

they are in direct reply to your post.

 

"doing a job" is now deemed good enough? what fantastic job?

 

i kind of agree on your past managers snippets there, except mccoist.

 

so we disagree, that is what forums are for.

[craig 5,199]

What was it mate? I dont think it was me was it?

 

No not you CG. You are playing nice

 

Was more calscot's reference to someone not "seeming sane"

[craig 5,199]

I thought the rumour was that at least 1 or 2 of those 9 were Smith signings and McCoist DIDNT want them. That not the case ?