calscot 0 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 (edited) The only way I would accept the stripping of titles is if we were caught bang to rights, and the decision was upheld following a proper appeal. Under no circumstances should the titles be awarded to someone else. There's no precedent for that in European football as far as I'm aware. Bang to rights for what? What exactly have we done wrong to deserve titles being stripped? This is all about dual contracts where at worst if we are "guilty", we have misinterpreted some paperwork and what constitutes a contract. You want to strip titles for an administrative error? An error that had absolutely no effect on what happened on the pitch - this is about dual contracts only, not about tax or affordability. Where is the precedent for stripping titles for this? As far as I know, titles have only been stripped due to match fixing which is in another universe from an administrative error that gains you no advantage. Does this mean that any club who ran an EBT should be stripped titles? Celtic ran one; however, their "argument" is that Celtic didn't win that year. Can you believe it? They base the morality of whether action should be taken on the possibility of Celtic being affected! That's integrity for you. But this would also apply to Arsenal and others in England - where are the investigations for honours to be stripped? There is many problems with the whole ethics of trying Rangers for this. Rangers did not knowingly break any rules and submitted the information to the SFA and SPL for years. Why didn't they point out the error after the first season? How can you allow an error to go past for ten years, allowing a club to think it's doing nothing wrong and then decide to retrospectively strip them of anything they've won? Like HMRC, this in entrapment. If the SFA had complained in the first year Rangers would have stopped doing it and there would be no case to answer. It's a point of justice that everyone seems to be ignoring. Anyway, if Rangers are ludicrously stripped of titles for a mere administrative error, just where do you stop in your investigations? What about image rights contracts, undeclared perks and bonuses etc? What about the covering up of child abuse that is similar to Penn State who were fined £39m, stripped of four seasons of honours and prevent from winning anything for another four seasons? What about manipulating the league with lies about mourning the death of an ex bit part player and more lies about a Japanese tour? But if we're going to strip previous titles on ambiguous paperwork points we're going to be investigating for a long time and the history of Scottish football, going by this, will be in tatters. When you spot an anomaly, the usual thing is to highlight it and then change the rules so they are no longer ambiguous. THEN you can punish clubs when they break the rules. That's proper justice. Edited July 27, 2012 by calscot 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyk 158 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Hmmm, it depends on what you mean by "fair and square"I used to play Monopoly in my young days (a long time before playstations) and I had one cousin who always wanted to be "banker" and would sneakily help himself to extra funds every now and then. I never considered his victories "fair and square". If we weren't playing by the same rules as everyone else we should voluntarily give up those titles acquired during the period of cheating. I don't think they should be allocated to anyone else as it would be impossible to know who would have won the titles if we hadn't cheated. Fair to me is it was 11 against 11 at similar levels, they could've and did beat us during these years (2000-01 they won, 2001-02 they won by 18 points, 2002-03 we won on GD, 2003-04 they won by 17 points, 2004-05 we by 1 point, 2005-06 they won by 18 points from us, 2006-07 they won by 12 points, 2007-08 they won by 3 points) . We didn't sign any superstars or world class players in fact a lot were absolutely shocking and took money for giving nothing back. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigy1881 79 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 This afternoon then it is Chris McLaughlin @BBCchrismclaug8m All parties involved in #Rangers #SFA membership saga now of the opinion that deal is pretty much done. Statement likely this afternoon. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Hmmm, it depends on what you mean by "fair and square"I used to play Monopoly in my young days (a long time before playstations) and I had one cousin who always wanted to be "banker" and would sneakily help himself to extra funds every now and then. I never considered his victories "fair and square". If we weren't playing by the same rules as everyone else we should voluntarily give up those titles acquired during the period of cheating. I don't think they should be allocated to anyone else as it would be impossible to know who would have won the titles if we hadn't cheated. What has this got to do with Rangers? You are selling your club down the river by spinning the facts against it and have the temerity to call yourself no12? Disgraceful! 1. This is about dual contracts only, not stealing money, not about tax, or being able to afford your spending. People are finding us guilty of a tax case that is still being decided and then applying it to a different scenario where the only relevance is whether the EBT's were undeclared contracts. The fact this is not clear cut means that there can be no case to answer that should result in a sanction so severe. You can't give people severe sanctions for accidentally breaking ambiguous rules. 2. With regards to the EBT's this is NOT stealing from the bank. It is at worst finding a way to manipulate ambiguous rules in your favour - and in a way that you would not complain if everyone else did so to. It's also doing it in full view of everyone - with explanation, and without ANYONE complaining at the time. How is that cheating? And remember, it was also done by the very rival who is trying to retrospectively strip you of your wins. I can't believe how many are falling for the Timmy lies and propaganda. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juancornetto 1 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Fair to me is it was 11 against 11 at similar levels, they could've and did beat us during these years (2000-01 they won, 2001-02 they won by 18 points, 2002-03 we won on GD, 2003-04 they won by 17 points, 2004-05 we by 1 point, 2005-06 they won by 18 points from us, 2006-07 they won by 12 points, 2007-08 they won by 3 points) . We didn't sign any superstars or world class players in fact a lot were absolutely shocking and took money for giving nothing back. They also had a number of players utilising now illgal LLP tax evading scams during that period, including Mr Lennon. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim1955 12 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 In footballing terms we were playing on the shoulder of the the last taxman defender. We all know that such a tactic can lead to tight decisions where sometimes we are offside, sometimes not! We are still waiting on a decision. There can be no concessions to a kangaroo court who have elected themselves to make this decision without having any authority whatsoever. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CumbernauldGers 0 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 This afternoon then it is Cheers mate, lets hope this happens and we can start playing football. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigy1881 79 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Cheers mate, lets hope this happens and we can start playing football. Indeed just want to see our team take to the pitch again and start the journey back to the top where we belong. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinker 887 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Bang to rights for what? What exactly have we done wrong to deserve titles being stripped? On the face of it we haven't done anything wrong, so bring on the investigation. The problem is, we don't really know what's gone on any more then the people who are accusing us. I used to believe that SDM wouldn't do anything so stupid that it could cast doubt on our titles, but now I'm not 100% confident of that. It might turn out (and that's just a very slim might) that he's done something seriously wrong financially. I don't think it's very likely, but it's possible. So when I say "bang to rights" I'm talking about the unlikely event that both the SFA and a proper independent body, (ideally the International Court for the Arbitration of Sport) find that something so serious has gone on that we should have titles stripped. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythebest 0 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Bang to rights for what? What exactly have we done wrong to deserve titles being stripped? This is all about dual contracts where at worst if we are "guilty", we have misinterpreted some paperwork and what constitutes a contract. You want to strip titles for an administrative error? An error that had absolutely no effect on what happened on the pitch - this is about dual contracts only, not about tax or affordability. Where is the precedent for stripping titles for this? As far as I know, titles have only been stripped due to match fixing which is in another universe from an administrative error that gains you no advantage. Does this mean that any club who ran an EBT should be stripped titles? Celtic ran one; however, their "argument" is that Celtic didn't win that year. Can you believe it? They base the morality of whether action should be taken on the possibility of Celtic being affected! That's integrity for you. But this would also apply to Arsenal and others in England - where are the investigations for honours to be stripped? There is many problems with the whole ethics of trying Rangers for this. Rangers did not knowingly break any rules and submitted the information to the SFA and SPL for years. Why didn't they point out the error after the first season? How can you allow an error to go past for ten years, allowing a club to think it's doing nothing wrong and then decide to retrospectively strip them of anything they've won? Like HMRC, this in entrapment. If the SFA had complained in the first year Rangers would have stopped doing it and there would be no case to answer. It's a point of justice that everyone seems to be ignoring. Anyway, if Rangers are ludicrously stripped of titles for a mere administrative error, just where do you stop in your investigations? What about image rights contracts, undeclared perks and bonuses etc? What about the covering up of child abuse that is similar to Penn State who were fined £39m, stripped of four seasons of honours and prevent from winning anything for another four seasons? What about manipulating the league with lies about mourning the death of an ex bit part player and more lies about a Japanese tour? But if we're going to strip previous titles on ambiguous paperwork points we're going to be investigating for a long time and the history of Scottish football, going by this, will be in tatters. When you spot an anomaly, the usual thing is to highlight it and then change the rules so they are no longer ambiguous. THEN you can punish clubs when they break the rules. That's proper justice. If eligibility rules were really broken then I at least think there's a case to answer sadly. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.