Guest Dutchy Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 And, what's more shuggie, someone on this site said of D&P, it may have been craig but I can't remember, that they had a great reputation. That would surely depend on what your measure of success is. Is it making lots of money out of a system of banking that leads to crisis, or is it saving these companies at a high cost and various forms of money manipulations. I belive this was D&P first football club and I don't know how long the average length of time for a football club being in admin is, but it's a bit rich that the only thing I can see that is measurable was to tell the high earners in Rangers to take a 75% wage cut, in exchange for special 'walk away' get out clauses. Only thing D&P knwe for sure was they were definately going to get paid, and the money saved from the players wage cuts was very useful in that payment of thier fees. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 And, what's more shuggie, someone on this site said of D&P, it may have been craig but I can't remember, that they had a great reputation. That would surely depend on what your measure of success is. Is it making lots of money out of a system of banking that leads to crisis, or is it saving these companies at a high cost and various forms of money manipulations. I belive this was D&P first football club and I don't know how long the average length of time for a football club being in admin is, but it's a bit rich that the only thing I can see that is measurable was to tell the high earners in Rangers to take a 75% wage cut, in exchange for special 'walk away' get out clauses. Only thing D&P knwe for sure was they were definately going to get paid, and the money saved from the players wage cuts was very useful in that payment of thier fees. nah, wasnt me Dutchy, although I did say that they have ethical standards to uphold so I couldnt see them being complicit in wrongdoing. That is still to be proven but I am far less convinced of my own stance on that now than I was then. I almost admitted to being wrong, almost 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Just a quick note to say any wholly OTT criticism of accountants is completely welcome on Gersnet. Ignore Craig. Where is the "roon ye" button ? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dutchy Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Where is the "roon ye" button ? Frankie said to ignore you first, lol 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shuggie Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 And, what's more shuggie, someone on this site said of D&P, it may have been craig but I can't remember, that they had a great reputation. That would surely depend on what your measure of success is. Is it making lots of money out of a system of banking that leads to crisis, or is it saving these companies at a high cost and various forms of money manipulations. I belive this was D&P first football club and I don't know how long the average length of time for a football club being in admin is, but it's a bit rich that the only thing I can see that is measurable was to tell the high earners in Rangers to take a 75% wage cut, in exchange for special 'walk away' get out clauses. Only thing D&P knwe for sure was they were definately going to get paid, and the money saved from the players wage cuts was very useful in that payment of thier fees. D&P have no reputation in the UK, I believe that they wanted this job to build a rep. Well they did not do very well then. I (nearly 30 years) in business along with a few others who I have spoken too had never heard of them before. I know they are US based largely, and none of the larger firms wanted to touch this job. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Couldn't agree more, all these shity investments may have been put forward by all these 'greedy companies', but none of them could have done any of it without the 'Creativity' of, yes you've guessed it accountants. I for one welcome any investigations into D&P, but I doubt anything much will happen to them even if they are found to have been bent. This will be my last post about blaming accountants, primarily as I dont want this going off topic. But you and I seem to be on a collision course with this incessantly. I would urge you to actually go and check which profession it is that provided the "creativity" and you will undoubtedly find that it wasnt the accountants, it was the mathematicians. All the CDS's, CDO's, sub-prime mortgages etc were concocted by "financial types", I give you that - but "financial types" is a very broad term - accountants, for the most part, simply deal with the back-end processing of them. It was the Quants, not the accountants, that created those products. Google a guy called Scott Peterson and take a read of his book "The Quants" - he names "luminaries" such as Peter Muller, Ken Griffin, Cliff Asness, Boaz Weinstein, Ed Thorp, Aaron Brown, Paul Wilmott - these guys created the products which caused the market crash. What do they have in common ? Two things.... one being that they are NOT accountants and the other being that they ARE mathematicians, or Quants. THEY created the mess. Funnily enough the CEO's of Wall Street, who effectively allowed these guys to package all those junk products together are..... yep, you guessed it, Quants as well !! Us accountants dont do well in thinking creatively, at least most of us anyway Seriously though I would recommend that book - is a good read into just what they were packaging and how they created the shit-storm that went down in 2007 & 2008. Sorry for going off-topic folks. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dutchy Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Shuggie, I just remember someone on here saying they were good guys when they were first appointed. I was sick CW is a crook and he's been getting away with this type of thing for far too long and needs some time in the clink, just to give us all a rest from these types. So why he preferred, or he wanted D&P to take charge of this case had the alarm bells ringing for me. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 D&P have no reputation in the UK, I believe that they wanted this job to build a rep. Well they did not do very well then. I (nearly 30 years) in business along with a few others who I have spoken too had never heard of them before. I know they are US based largely, and none of the larger firms wanted to touch this job. If none of the larger firms wanted to touch it then who would we have been left with ? Serious question. I dont think m(any) of us had heard of them before. But Clark & Whitehouse DO have a lot of experience behind them as administrators - to be fair it could also be said that this job was far too big for them. They have done anything but cover themselves in glory. But bent ? I still doubt that part. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shuggie Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 If none of the larger firms wanted to touch it then who would we have been left with ? Serious question. I dont think m(any) of us had heard of them before. But Clark & Whitehouse DO have a lot of experience behind them as administrators - to be fair it could also be said that this job was far too big for them. They have done anything but cover themselves in glory. But bent ? I still doubt that part. If you speak to any senior people in the big firms they are still haunted by the "Blair Nimmo" factor. 10 years on he is still receiving stick from Airdrie fans. Imagine the Rngers scenario in their minds. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dutchy Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 This will be my last post about blaming accountants, primarily as I dont want this going off topic. But you and I seem to be on a collision course with this incessantly. I would urge you to actually go and check which profession it is that provided the "creativity" and you will undoubtedly find that it wasnt the accountants, it was the mathematicians. All the CDS's, CDO's, sub-prime mortgages etc were concocted by "financial types", I give you that - but "financial types" is a very broad term - accountants, for the most part, simply deal with the back-end processing of them. It was the Quants, not the accountants, that created those products. Google a guy called Scott Peterson and take a read of his book "The Quants" - he names "luminaries" such as Peter Muller, Ken Griffin, Cliff Asness, Boaz Weinstein, Ed Thorp, Aaron Brown, Paul Wilmott - these guys created the products which caused the market crash. What do they have in common ? Two things.... one being that they are NOT accountants and the other being that they ARE mathematicians, or Quants. THEY created the mess. Funnily enough the CEO's of Wall Street, who effectively allowed these guys to package all those junk products together are..... yep, you guessed it, Quants as well !! Us accountants dont do well in thinking creatively, at least most of us anyway Seriously though I would recommend that book - is a good read into just what they were packaging and how they created the shit-storm that went down in 2007 & 2008. Sorry for going off-topic folks. This thread is about a judge ordeering a firm of accountants to provide a report, my comments are not off topic. I would be going off topic if I could be bothered listing all the accountacy firms responsible for abusing mathematics, but as I say, it can't be bothered. Although I will say your argument that is was mathematicians that 'created' the techniques is as bad as saying that it's the gun that shots the victim, not the person that pulled the trigger. That's the end of me replying to your excuses in defending your profession, which is understandable, but on shakey ground. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.