amms 0 Posted June 21, 2012 Author Share Posted June 21, 2012 Calscot - I’m not sure I agree we can define our debts and mitigate our responsibilities actually. I agree that Ticketus are moneylenders and people shouldn’t shed many tears for them, but the original debt was from Murray’s time and to the bank and so created by spending on football related expenditure. It is all cause and effect and we can’t overlook the cause of it. You ask where we’ve benefitted; that’s where. I don’t fully understand the EBT scheme. I agree it seems very unfair that HMRC can back date a tax demand by 10 years, however they can, that’s the rules and how they work. In my limited experience of them I’m pretty sure a deal could be done with them on repayment had the case gone against us, but who really knows. I fully accept that without the shadow of the big tax case a lot of what has happened wouldn’t have, however I don’t think it mitigates what did happen. I don’t accept the argument that because we’ve not benefitted from the debt we’re not responsible for it (and I do think we benefitted from it). As I mentioned before, you are Rangers, as am I, when all the players, directors and moneylenders are gone we’re what’s left, we should take the lead, show the direction. Ultimately we’re responsible. You seem to see what I’m saying as an attack on the club. It’s not, quite the opposite. I love Rangers, I genuinely think this is the best course of action for us. It will instantly end the feeding frenzy that has engulfed the club of late, it will allow us a period of reflection, regrouping and introspection. We’ll be forced to downsize, undoubtedly, but hopefully only for a few years, and again if it forces us to look harder for talent locally and produce our own it might be beneficial. If it also show’s a few of our more vocal critics that they should have been a bit more careful of what they wished for then that’s an added bonus, but not my main motivation. I hate Rupert Murdoch and everything he stands for, but he’s a smart man I’ll acknowledge that, and he understands human nature very well. Last year as the Milly Dowler phone tapping case came to light and an explosion of public revulsion engulfed the News Of The World he did a very, very smart thing; he closed the paper down. There were very few dissenting voices when he launched the Sun on Sunday six months later. The anger and feelings towards the News of the World had moved on to other targets and the paper, for all intents and purposes the NOTW with a new badge, carried on as before. By falling on our own sword, by leading the way in ‘retribution’ we’ll kill this debate, we’ll dictate its terms and we’ll be back in control of it. We’ll no longer be on the back foot, constantly defending ourselves, we’ll have the moral high ground again. For the record, I’ve not been brain washed by Peter Lawwell and I’ve not got some form of Stockholm Syndrome, I genuinely believe this is in the long term best interests of Rangers. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Berliner 3,664 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 That is all fine and well. Yet, all the above has to face up to Lawwell, the Scum's hatred, and their lapdog press. They will not stop until we are down and out. That is what they are living for, some more than they love their club. And IMHO that is not exaggerated. We have seen this coming since 2008 at the very latest. This lot rather see us die and jump behind us in the grave than Scottish football survive. Is that mental? Of course it is. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy steel 0 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 remorse waling away your moral anguish our own start to fall for the propaganda against us. self-flagellation Why not save time and just write 'hand-wringers'? You know you want to!! If someone want to apologise for Whyte's actions, then fine. Does it help? No I see if differently. And not to satisfy a lot of hysterical fans of other clubs but to satisfy this Rangers fan. If it's only me, so what? That's how I feel. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedell 5,553 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Why not save time and just write 'hand-wringers'? You know you want to!! Not sure if it was specifically aimed at me, but FWIW, I don't think the term applies to those making the argument here. I see if differently. And not but to satisfy this Rangers fan. If it's only me, so what? That's how I feel. Who should apologise? Green? Whoever it is has absolutely no influence over the administration and has personally nothing to apologise for. Any such apology seems meaningless and pointless and presumably would be seen as such by most of those at whom it is aimed. We'll need to agree to disagree on this. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amms 0 Posted June 21, 2012 Author Share Posted June 21, 2012 That is all fine and well. Yet, all the above has to face up to Lawwell, the Scum's hatred, and their lapdog press. They will not stop until we are down and out. That is what they are living for, some more than they love their club. And IMHO that is not exaggerated. We have seen this coming since 2008 at the very latest. This lot rather see us die and jump behind us in the grave than Scottish football survive. Is that mental? Of course it is. With respect DB Celtic haven't done this to us, we did it to ourselves. Lawwell has what he wants currently, he's won this part of the fight, but the war isn't over. Now is the time for us to retreat and regroup. A Rangers in the SPL, hamstrung by sanctions and possibly by finance helps who exactly? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa 0 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Have to say that I agree with Bluedell, Calscot & der Berliner on this. I'd also like to say that I disagree with the concept of us deciding our own punishment for a variety of reasons, but the main one is actually that deciding our own punishment would not be the end of it, especially if our decision (to for example just apply to the SFL) had a catastrophic effect on certain other SPL clubs, forcing them into administration too. You're potentially advocating that the club hand the SFA an extremely good reason to permanently terminate our membership. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UCF2008 0 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I think we should withhold / withdraw our application for SFA membership until the SPL vote has taken place and make them sweat. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa 0 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I think we should withhold / withdraw our application for SFA membership until the SPL vote has taken place and make them sweat. Without the SFA membership or at least the SFA in receipt of our membership application it may well be that the SPL wouldn't actually be in a position to hold the vote. Doncaster did say that our SFA membership wouldn't affect our SPL status though, so you could have a point assuming that Doncaster was correct. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UCF2008 0 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Without the SFA membership or at least the SFA in receipt of our membership application it may well be that the SPL wouldn't actually be in a position to hold the vote. Doncaster did say that our SFA membership wouldn't affect our SPL status though, so you could have a point assuming that Doncaster was correct. Don't think it would stop the SPL vote from taking place. If the SPL vote goes against us however, it wouldn't leave the SFA holding all the cards. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa 0 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Don't think it would stop the SPL vote from taking place. If the SPL vote goes against us however, it wouldn't leave the SFA holding all the cards. If it wouldn't stop the SPL vote going ahead (which we obviously don't know for sure), then you've definitely got a good point because if the SFA hold our membership then they would have a say in whether we apply to a league outwith Scotland. If the SFA don't hold our membership (or application), then it's doubtful if they would have a say in whether we apply to play elsewhere such as south of the border. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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