European chances in two years

[Danny 0]

That was a different Rangers team.

 

You...utterly missed the point by a BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG WOOOOOOOOOOOOSH IT'S FLYYYYYYYING OVER YER HEAD. Oops, it's gone now.

 

Sorry, dunno what came over me there.

[Danny 0]

I don't think anyone is arguing with you that our UEFA final team was better at getting results than the Zagreb team (although I bet you didn't like the way they did it). However, the first game after the final, we went out to Kaunas. Shows that the seven points is hardly something that can be used as a comparison.

 

The one who lost to Zenit:

 

Alexander, Broadfoot, Weir, Cuellar, Papac (Novo 77), Hemdani (McCulloch 80), Whittaker (Boyd 86), Ferguson, Thomson, Davis, Darcheville.

 

The one who lost to kaunus:

 

McGregor, Broadfoot, Weir, Papac, Whittaker, Novo (Boyd 88), McCulloch, Dailly, Thomson, Adam (Velicka 66), Miller (Lafferty 89).

 

The one who lost to Kaunus had no Cousin, Cuellar, Hemdani, Ferguson, Davis, or Darcheville.

 

Are you seriously comparing the two sides like for like? The one who played Kaunus had Dailly and Adam in it for Chief's sake!

 

We also probably agree that our team, when match fit and on form, would probably have achieved more points in that group than Zagreb.

 

However, our team was not at its best for many reasons, quite a few of which were out of Ally's control, some were just bad luck. In those circumstances, a team like Malmo are of a high enough level to have a great chance to get a result against us - as do Kaunas, as do St Johnstone.

 

You know summit, I'm not even sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me any more!

[kuznetsov 0]

Imagine dropping Hemdani for Christian fucking Dailly. doh

[Zappa 0]

You...utterly missed the point by a BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG WOOOOOOOOOOOOSH IT'S FLYYYYYYYING OVER YER HEAD. Oops, it's gone now.

 

Sorry, dunno what came over me there.

 

I didn't miss the point at all, I just didn't want to take it any further. I think we've covered it.

[der Berliner 3,867]

Whats your pont mate? Ally know the other team were fit an playing games and still made an arse of pre-season? Thats defo another great reason to keep him.

 

Imo Ally was very very un-professional last summer and cost us a place in europe, he was ill prepared and the team was a shambles. Would you disagree?

 

Yes, as I was last time this was debated on here. If you think that our failure revolved around Ally, so be it.

 

Same goes for the rest of the debate on last season's exit. Opinions apparently differ quite a bit here.

Edited May 23, 2012 by der Berliner

[CumbernauldGers 0]

Yes, as I was last time this was debated on here. If you think that our failure revolved around Ally, so be it.

 

Same goes for the rest of the debate on last season's exit. Opinions apparently differ quite a bit here.

 

So can i be clear you dont think pre-season was a shambles and Ally AS THE MANAGER was to blame for the euor exit?

[calscot 0]

The one who lost to Zenit:

 

Alexander, Broadfoot, Weir, Cuellar, Papac (Novo 77), Hemdani (McCulloch 80), Whittaker (Boyd 86), Ferguson, Thomson, Davis, Darcheville.

 

The one who lost to kaunus:

 

McGregor, Broadfoot, Weir, Papac, Whittaker, Novo (Boyd 88), McCulloch, Dailly, Thomson, Adam (Velicka 66), Miller (Lafferty 89).

 

The one who lost to Kaunus had no Cousin, Cuellar, Hemdani, Ferguson, Davis, or Darcheville.

 

Are you seriously comparing the two sides like for like? The one who played Kaunus had Dailly and Adam in it for Chief's sake!

 

The side we played against Malmo was also a lot weaker than the UEFA final run team. It was also a lot weaker than the team that put in an excellent run in the SPL at the beginning of the season.

 

The point is that you can't use the results of one of our best team in years to compare with a Zagreb team that stumbled into the CL.

 

The circumstances of the Malmo loss was similar to the Kaunas loss but in addition we had the shortest close season in history while Malmo were in the middle of their season. Not only that, IIRC we looked the better quality side but didn't apply it on the park and at times were unlucky - as happens in cup games.

 

I doubt even our best team of last season would have achieved 7 points in that group - and I believe our best team when on form to be a level above that of Zagreb and Malmo.

 

Unfortunately during the qualifiers we neither had our best team nor our best form. That's fatal in a cup competition.

 

So the first question is: is Ally culpable for that? For me, I think his culpability is limited by the circumstances which reminded me of how a manager can go on one of the best European runs in the club's history to out on its arse to Kaunas due to poor circumstances.

 

The second question is: are the European results, despite the circumstances, weighty enough to replace McCoist at a time when our club is in turmoil, not in Europe and with a signing ban? A sub-question is: can we afford it and afford to get someone better in?

 

I see Europe as a bonus and while we adopt our current season timing, qualifying will be a lottery. I base a manager worthiness on his league form and in that sense I think Ally was more than passable under the circumstances. I believe that without the off field problems the league would have gone to the wire which is the best we can expect from a Rangers manager. That is ignoring the fact he had a cheaper, smaller squad than Celtic and was not able to sign his first choice targets.

 

On the sub question: I don't think we can afford it and can't think of anyone better who would be realistic.

 

The third question is: do you you think McCoist did enough under the exceptional circumstances of last season to be given a proper chance to see if he can be a managerial success?

 

I think he did exceptionally well under the circumstances and deserves a shot where he has a level playing field with our rivals. If he fails badly at that then fair enough, time to go.

 

You know summit, I'm not even sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me any more!

 

Some bits I agree, some I disagree and some in between...

[der Berliner 3,867]

So can i be clear you dont think pre-season was a shambles and Ally AS THE MANAGER was to blame for the euor exit?

 

Pre-season ... what was a shambles here? That our club did not maul the German opposition in fitness bouts and semi-training sessions? Ally ... I do not blame him for the Euro exit, at least not ahead of the players. IMHO, his line-up against Malmö at home was the best we could muster - even though some would argue that about McCulloch's inclusion. Individual errors did cost us against both teams, as well as Jela's inability to score from the half-dozen chances he had. That, btw, is football.

[kuznetsov 0]

Pre-season ... what was a shambles here? That our club did not maul the German opposition in fitness bouts and semi-training sessions? Ally ... I do not blame him for the Euro exit, at least not ahead of the players. IMHO, his line-up against Malmö at home was the best we could muster - even though some would argue that about McCulloch's inclusion. Individual errors did cost us against both teams, as well as Jela's inability to score from the half-dozen chances he had. That, btw, is football.

 

Naismith was just as guilty as Jelavic for missing sitters. 2 or 3 at Ibrox and 1 away from home if i remember correctly.

[Zappa 0]

Naismith was just as guilty as Jelavic for missing sitters. 2 or 3 at Ibrox and 1 away from home if i remember correctly.

 

Even some of the best strikers in the world often miss sitters. As der Berliner says, that's football. The game should be about winning as a team and losing as a team. Sometimes howling individual mistakes make all the difference, but sometimes excellent individual performances make all the difference. The problem is that it's difficult at times to not separate the villains and hereos from the rest of the team performance especially when horrific errors or sublime strokes of genius are the most memorable moments.