calscot 0 Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 Rangers run in Europe is 100% to blame on Ally McCoist. Starting training only a few weeks before such an important game was total mismanagement. Most teams I know of playing so early in Europe had already started training in June. That is when McCoist decided to go to Portugal on Holiday which is a decision I cannot understand to this day. I will also say I have watched Rangers a few times on their pre season tour of Germany\Holland and have been totally shocked at the effort they show. sauntering on to the park in bath slippers was one of the things that got me. Jock Wallace would have been spinning in his grave if he seen them. Maybe big Jock went over the top with his Gullane sands routine but surely we can expect players to be fully fit for a 10million pound CL battle. This kind of makes my point. Maybe we were better prepared but Jock's record in Europe wasn't great most seasons. Here's the list of teams he went out to: 73 Borussia Mönchengladbach R2 74 Didn't qualify 75 AS Saint-�tienne R2 76 FC Zurich R1 77 FC Twente Enschede R1 83 Porto R2 84 Inter R2 85 Osasuna R1 Some "teams we should have beaten" there - especially as he took over Rangers at a time when we were a very successful European side who had just won the Cup Winners Cup. As I keep saying, our European record has more blips than War and Peace transmitted in morse code. However, this doesn't mean Jock was a rubbish manager - you don't judge a manager by one season in Europe, especially his first one, especially when it's an incredibly early start, especially when some of your players are not yet fit, especially when you haven't been given the resources to replenish your squad, especially when your team is a bit unlucky and especially when you have a couple of players who lose the plot. It's a blemish on McCoist's record but it's not as bad as some make out and there are mitigating circumstances which I would say suggests he deserves another chance. If only his critics were as hard on themselves for their lack of success as they are on Rangers managers. I'm not saying Ally is a great manager or is immune to criticism but the flack he is receiving is well over the top and incredibly glib (pub teams ffs). He doesn't deserve the sack yet. He's been more successful in Europe in his career than I would bet the vast majority on here have been at pretty much anything, so at least give the guy a modicum of respect when you do criticise. In any case, the most important thing for a Rangers manager is the SPL, which is why PLG had to go despite a decent European run. Ally was far superior there despite a hell of a lot more difficulties. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 For Calscot, Results: Rangers v Malmo lost 0-1 Malmo v Rangers Drew 1-1 Maribor v Rangers Lost 2-1 Rangers v Maribo Drew 1-1 Not very mixed mate to me, looks like 4 games, and no wins. You're very good at selective thinking aren't you? Where are his results as a player and assistant manager? Weren't we talking about him not "doing anything in Europe"? I think it's pretty narrow minded to selectively pick his first season as manager where he wasn't given a level playing field. If managers were normally sacked for a couple of bad games at the beginning of their first season, we would probably have had over 100 managers rather than just 13. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 You forgot to mention what Group they were put in..... Against Real Madrid, Lyon & Ajax I think we would have been screwed! Maybe not given that our squad would have had time to get prepared for the group games, but I certainly wouldn't have been confident. Not at all. I think we'd have been very lucky to beat Ajax to 3rd place in the group had we been drawn that group. I think it's also a fair supposition that we SHOULD have beaten Zagreb - we were the seeded team but didn't get through. They struck lucky against us by playing us at the right time when we were not really up to the task. I'm not saying we would have been a lot better in the group, but once we got our season rolling we were a far, far better team than either of the two that played in that qualifying tie. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Berliner 3,867 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I think it's also a fair supposition that we SHOULD have beaten Zagreb - we were the seeded team but didn't get through. They struck lucky against us by playing us at the right time when we were not really up to the task. I'm not saying we would have been a lot better in the group, but once we got our season rolling we were a far, far better team than either of the two that played in that qualifying tie. A point all too often ignored. We started against Malmö having played a few friendlies, and with a team half full of newbies. They started to click later on (as we saw), but it took time nonetheless. Malmö, on the other hand, were some 14 weeks into their season, well settled and thus in much better shape for the challenge. They had the match practise we achieved in mid-November (i.e. 14 match days). And, IMHO, to claim that the Swedish or Norwegian or Slovenian league is much worse than what the SPL has to offer beyond the OF is pretty daft indeed. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CumbernauldGers 0 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 That is selective thinking and completely missing Zappa's point. The scum had the treble won off the field and suddenly stumbled over Killie and Hearts respectively. They stumbled quite a few times over recent years. As we did over Falkirk. It seems that your cosmos revolves around Rangers. That point of view is in dire need of change. Mate i think you need to have a look at this thread again before trying to hand out advice. The thread is about Rangers in europe in the next 2 years, it has went off a wee bit and were debating last years results. So i have no idea what your trying to say, i have posted the result we had last season, nothing less and nothing more, the results. We did not win a game at 4 attempts, this has nothing to do with them or our demostic cup failings. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CumbernauldGers 0 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 You're very good at selective thinking aren't you? Where are his results as a player and assistant manager? Weren't we talking about him not "doing anything in Europe"? I think it's pretty narrow minded to selectively pick his first season as manager where he wasn't given a level playing field. If managers were normally sacked for a couple of bad games at the beginning of their first season, we would probably have had over 100 managers rather than just 13. Sorry mate but this post makes me laugh. Yeah lets not debate the facts of the manager and the results when talking about how we think the team will do in the future???? Results as a player? Is this for real?? And by the way it's not very hard to be selective when your dealing with facts and not trying to re-write history just because the manager was a legend as a player. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 0 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 You forgot to mention what Group they were put in..... Against Real Madrid, Lyon & Ajax I think we would have been screwed! Maybe not given that our squad would have had time to get prepared for the group games, but I certainly wouldn't have been confident. Not at all. I think we'd have been very lucky to beat Ajax to 3rd place in the group had we been drawn that group. Erm, in a group involving Barca, Lyon and VFB we managed 7 points! So no, I didn't forget the group. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny 0 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Danny, I will only point out one thing here: Zagreb's group included: REAL MADRID OLYMPIQUE LYON AJAX AMSTERDAM One could always say a side is crap and should do better, but leaving the opposition out of the equation ain't a good basis for an argument. In that group, we would have been mauled into oblivion ... Erm, in a group involving Barca, Lyon and VFB we managed 7 points! So no, I didn't forget the group. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 Sorry mate but this post makes me laugh. Yeah lets not debate the facts of the manager and the results when talking about how we think the team will do in the future???? I have not excluded that from the debate - in fact it is you that has by talking about some pub teams we didn't play. I have merely pointed out that a couple of unlucky losses under trying circumstances at the start of a rookie manager's tenure is probably not a complete statistical sample to predict the future. An example of this is that even a ton of games in Walter's first full season in his second term that went brilliantly, was not enough to predict that we'd be out on our arse to Kaunas the very next season. Cup games are unpredictable and one season's results not a good predictor of the next season's results. There is a surfeit of corroborating evidence in almost every club in the world's history. Results as a player? Is this for real?? I'm sorry, it seems Ally's extensive European experience as a player is less relevant than your "pub team" opinion... However, the main point was, you said something like he would "never do anything in Europe" when the fact is, he already had. And by the way it's not very hard to be selective when your dealing with facts and not trying to re-write history just because the manager was a legend as a player. You're the only person rewriting history by saying incorrectly and disparagingly that we lost to pub teams, just because you don't like the manager or are unable to give others a fair chance or judgement. I'll say again, you cannot predict how well a manager will do in Europe in the future (especially given a more normal run up and season) based on one seasons' European cup tie results. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 Erm, in a group involving Barca, Lyon and VFB we managed 7 points! [/size]So no, I didn't forget the group. Maybe Zagreb played lovely football... Your point is a bit erroneous none the less. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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