calscot 0 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Why not? If they're 'willing' to put a grand into the club to ensure its future, it seems curious that they're unwilling to put a grand in to ensure its survival. Don't you think? If we were talking about a tenner then I'd agree with you but a grand is a lot of money to people and there is even a big difference to the two scenarios. I would argue that the ironic thing is that the closer the club is to oblivion then less they would be willing to give. This is from the perception of whether the money will do any good or be swallowed up and then the club goes bust anyway. Imagine you donate a grand now and it's all you've got, everyone else donates a tenner and club goes bust... How would you feel? When people invest a huge chunk of their savings they want some kind of tangible return - firstly a strong Rangers and secondly something that acknowledges their investment. The thing about a share issue is you may eventually lose all your money, but that is over a period of time - and you can cash it in before then or give it as a present or put it on your wall or whatever. It also gives you a tangible say in the running of the club. If the fans buy 100,000 x £1000 shares in the club for 25% ownership then they have some power. Donating with no return means that the rich guys can come in, use your money and still own the club outright and mess about with it like the last two owners. There are many other confusing aspects for fans - like the fact the money might just give the creditors a better CVA pay off and not benefit the club at all. I never pretended I'd put money in on that scale to a fictitious scheme. I was quite outspoken against it. But as there was no real payment of money, are you sure you didn't let negative feelings you have for the RST mean that you threw the baby out with the bathwater? Most people didn't care who was doing the poll, they just wanted to let people know there was a lot of fans willing to invest a significant amount in the club if it came to it. That information is highly useful to more than the RST. But I am happy to put my money in to a real cause officially supported by the club. And have done. I'm sure your thousand pound donation will come in very handy and be put to good use. Maybe I'm wrong but I really doubt many of those who pledged a grand for a share issue will donate anywhere near the same amount. Myself included. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Calscot, re your last point above - I am willing to wager that most of the fans who pledged cash to SaveRangers did so to..... wait.... SAVE RANGERS. I am also willing to wager that most did not consider that it was an investment into fan ownership. Remember, this was created at a time when we were (still are I guess) in utter turmoil over the club being put into administration. People would not have been seeing clearly - and I reckon they saw "Save Rangers" as just that.... not an "Invest in post administration Rangers". I know I did. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I understand the sentiment johnny.... But where I have confusion is that the reality is your "share" for your 1,000 will, ultimately, be a donation anyway. That may be the case but it sure feels better donating with a share... Look at what SaveRangers are saying on the website.... they are saying profits should be re-invested into the club. Which is fine. But if profits are re-invested then what is your share certificate worth ? Is it an investment or is it a donation ? Seems to me that if profits are reinvested then that will buoy up the intrinsic value of the share price... You're not going to make a share value return due to the potential dividends but who cares about that? If we assume that the fans bought the club for the market value of the assets (Ibrox and MP) then subsequent to that the plan is to re-invest the profits, then your share for 1,000 is merely a donation. I don't understand. If you own say a 10,000th of something and it makes a profits then I can't see how your 10,000th is worth less never mind nothing. In fact, if the money is invested well, then couldn't it be worth more? I thought that's how small-business start ups worked... I'm so confused I'll give an easy example. If I buy a house with one other person so a half share each, rent it out and invest the profits to make sure the house is at least maintained and perhaps improved, then you're saying my share in the house would be worth nothing some years down the line? I can't see how the reinvested profits water down or reduce your share. However, there is the point that if you bought £1000 worth of shares at the last issue then they are pretty worthless now. I can understand others seeing it differently but that is how I see it. And given that I think the need is as great, if not greater, to provide the club with funds NOW. So I will be making my donation to the club this week. Well done. I'll also donate but it won't be an amount that empties my savings account. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Calscot, re your last point above - I am willing to wager that most of the fans who pledged cash to SaveRangers did so to..... wait.... SAVE RANGERS. I am also willing to wager that most did not consider that it was an investment into fan ownership. Remember, this was created at a time when we were (still are I guess) in utter turmoil over the club being put into administration. People would not have been seeing clearly - and I reckon they saw "Save Rangers" as just that.... not an "Invest in post administration Rangers". I know I did. I see you point and maybe it's just me but I have big doubts that the majority of pledgers see it in the same way as you when it comes to putting their hand in their pocket. The proof of the pudding will be in how much is raised. I doubt it will approach 8 figures. We'll see. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I see you point and maybe it's just me but I have big doubts that the majority of pledgers see it in the same way as you when it comes to putting their hand in their pocket. The proof of the pudding will be in how much is raised. I doubt it will approach 8 figures. We'll see. The reality will be different from what they pledged in terms of quantum. But then I would argue that was the case whether they saw it as an investment OR a donation. My point is that I suspect most saw it as saving Rangers and would have overlooked the notion of fan ownership. They would have seen "SaveRangers" and thought "I am in", made their pledge and probably forgot about it or didnt realise it was more about fan ownership than saving Rangers. Again, I may very well be in the minority here but I actually think I would be more inclined to donate anyway. I have a share certificate from my RST membership... how much is that worth to me ? Again, I may be in the minority but anything I put into Rangers isnt about getting a return on it. My personal opinion is that I can make a 1,000 pounds investment in Rangers and get a nice, new shiny share certificate... but I still consider it worthless because I dount that I would see any return on that anytime soon. Again, I am PROBABLY wrong with that. But the over-riding factor to me is that by standing on the sidelines waiting to see if we even have a club to have fan ownership in... I would rather donate NOW to ensure that it doesnt happen. In fact, I would rather donate NOW, not have the money to buy shares, but would still be HAPPY because others at least CAN buy shares in a functioning, viable club. It seems that if we dont donate now there is still a very real chance that the opportunity to invest wont even come along. But maybe that is just the pessimist in me. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa 0 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 They have a spelling mistake on the signage. "Oversees" should be spelt "Overseas". 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plgsarmy 111 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 They have a spelling mistake on the signage. "Oversees" should be spelt "Overseas". There was also a mistake on the original Paypal link so if anyone has donated to assembly@bluenose.co.uk it should be assembly@thebluenose.co.uk. I think you need to go and reclaim your money if you have used the first one. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa 0 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 • Supporters can also use PayPal to make a donation - fans on PayPal can log on to their accounts then type in assembly@bluenose.co.uk to contribute The Rangers Fans Fighting Fund are giving Paypal free publicity here, so I hope someone has had the common sense to speak to Paypal about a complete Fee Waiver agreement. There's no way Paypal should be profiting out of money being donated to this fund when they're getting free publicity from it. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plgsarmy 111 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 The Rangers Fans Fighting Fund are giving Paypal free publicity here, so I hope someone has had the common sense to speak to Paypal about a complete Fee Waiver agreement. There's no way Paypal should be profiting out of money being donated to this fund when they're getting free publicity from it. I think there is a way of giving it as a gift whereby there are no fees but if everyone did that then they may go out of business. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa 0 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I think there is a way of giving it as a gift whereby there are no fees but if everyone did that then they may go out of business. Yes, but I'm talking about the Assembly speaking to Paypal about getting a fee waiver on their account for the duration of the donation period. It's worth asking. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.