Guest Dutchy Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 You just cannot properly assess Ally's management skills with all that has been going on. As Bears says, it's about survival at the moment and I don't even thing WS could change anything that's going on behind the scenes at this time. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I have a feeling that Smith might have done a better job during the crisis as he's a magician at motivating players as his second spell showed. However, he's pretty irrelevant as he didn't want the job this season. And even if he had stayed on and done a better job, after the 10pt deduction, where would we be in the league? I would guess at second - so where's the improvement? Maybe in the cups? I also think it's a fallacy to say Lennon is rubbish when you look at his 20 game winning streak. 75 pts from 30 games is a reasonable record. He may not be the best but he's certainly passable when you look at OF history since the inception of the SPL. The fact he's not fit for the diplomatic side of being a manager is a different argument. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Berliner 3,747 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) Regarding Lennon, he's assembled a team of 30 first-teamers over three, nay four seasons. Most of them have enough quality to beat nigh anything in the SPL these days. With nigh three full squads to chose from and their greatest rivals down on their knees for long spells on and off the field, this season has been and is becoming a stroll on the park for them. At the same time, the rather alarming (T-)imidation of the referees also shows serious effects. I keep reminding people who think that the SPL is essentially about winning the four OF games - since the rest of the league "is garbage" - that winning titles in Scotland is far from easy (as the opposition usually gives 110% against us (and sometimes them)), the same holds true here. If they rack up a decent winning run, fair enough. But we shall not lose objectivity either. They have a (couple of) vastly superior team(s) to anyone in the league right now (as we all know and lamented about how much the standard has dropped) and thus their temporary dominance is hardly a surprise. All that said, from top to bottom, this Celtic team is rank rotten in the way they treat the rest of the SPL and will receive no respect whatsoever from me. And I would not invite a question about what I would wish them if they happen to be in the same shyte as we were in not so long ago. Edited March 13, 2012 by der Berliner 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse With No Name 0 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 TBH, I think had the club situation be different, that probably would have been the case. If everything else was rosey, and McCoist still couldn't get the results, then fair enough.....but that hasn't been the case. Pretty much anything that could go wrong, has gone wrong and its been completely outwith McCoists control in most cases. As stated previously, I am still very skeptical about his long term suitability, but I am willing to be proved wrong and believe McCoist should be given that change once things are stabilised. Had Lennon had to put up with what Ally has I suspect he'd've topped himself - that's if he really did suffer Depression! As a sufferer for the last 5 yrs or so I SERIOUSLY DOUBT IT, more likely he has a Jesus complex! Only Celtic's control over the media has allowed him to stay in work! Can you imagine Ally putting the boot into a drunk Hibee fan and not a inch colomn of condemnation. When Ally mentioned about people getting their wee kick in now as they'll be payback I just pray he was talking about the recording of yellow teeth with EHD in the background! No doubt the Celtic PR machine wiill get behind him and say Racism is a part of Depression! I take onboard the point from DerBerliner about Celtic having enough for 3 decent teams - I say under WS we would have had the title wrapped up even without those 10 pts, because we wouldn't have went into freefall - it's like one of those athletic running contests, we tripped BUT NEVER GOT OFF OUR ARSES, while Celtic seeing that,n took heart and went for it! Also, as a lover of stats I find it very revealing that Celtic averaged (roughly speaking) as fouls as all teams, yet week in week out you see that and THEY DON'T GET HARDLY ANY YELLOW CARDS. While the same applies to us but we're probably top of the cards league! HARDLY TAKES A GENIOUS TO WORK THAT OUT and had WS been in charge that's an issue that would have been addressed - but then that's why they hated him so much. Rangers really should make that tape available! 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse With No Name 0 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 What an incredibly obnoxious statement. Why should people give you the last word when you are making outlandish statements. So Greig was a better manager ? Why should the start of the season be put in context ? We were winning, Ally was picking the team - what context is there ? You are being highly selective in how you defend your position here. Anything positive that has happened you are suggesting it wasnt McCoist's doing whilst everything negative was ALL McCoist's doing. And using PLG as a defence is nigh on farcical. I wanted PLG to get more time too but when YOU look at the negative's of PLG's reign you have decided that players are on a mutiny and that the Chairman should have backed him. Where was Craig Whyte's backing of McCoist in the transfer market when McCoist couldnt get his first OR second choice signings ? Ohhhh, that would be something we cant blame McCoist for so lets just ignore it. Yes, it appears you DO have an agenda against McCoist. I am not saying he has been a great manager for us, indeed far from it - but when someone cant be at least objective when comparing them to previous managers then the whole argument becomes futile. I thought it an accurate statement. Just look at the reply about me having an agenda against him! I have an opinion and will argue it fairly and squarely, if you don't like it too obnoxious or whatever AS I SAID YOU HAVE A CHOICE either debate it or don't argue.! I'm pretty sure I said 'the possible exception of Greig". In some ways they are very similar both inherited great teams and both starts seemed successful enough. I'd say though that the squad Greig had was older and that he hardly got much to spend. Like McCoist he wasted a lot of cash on very average players! I'd still say McCoist is worse - if he stays you'll see, Ally has a huge disadvantage, he wants all the people to love him all the time!. THAT CANNOT EVER BE DONE! Why should the start of the season be put in context? Obviously you have to look at all factors in an equation! Pretty simple. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I thought it an accurate statement. Just look at the reply about me having an agenda against him! I have an opinion and will argue it fairly and squarely, if you don't like it too obnoxious or whatever AS I SAID YOU HAVE A CHOICE either debate it or don't argue.! I'm pretty sure I said 'the possible exception of Greig". In some ways they are very similar both inherited great teams and both starts seemed successful enough. I'd say though that the squad Greig had was older and that he hardly got much to spend. Like McCoist he wasted a lot of cash on very average players! I'd still say McCoist is worse - if he stays you'll see, Ally has a huge disadvantage, he wants all the people to love him all the time!. THAT CANNOT EVER BE DONE! Why should the start of the season be put in context? Obviously you have to look at all factors in an equation! Pretty simple. No, you basically said that if people didnt want to debate it then dont argue with you. So in another thread you said that the standard of debate was poor, and in here are effectively refusing to debate it. I dont recall you saying the possible exception of Greig. I may have to go re-read your posts now but I distinctly remember you saying worst manager in our history but absolutely do not recall Greig being the caveat used. No other manager was used from what I recall. Will go take another look though. As I thought.... I refer you to your own post in post #9.... "If Kennedy thinks McCoist is the right man in the dugout ii just prey he doesn't get control of the club. Ally has been the worse manager in the history of our great club. I would be 100% in favour of Ally being kept on in PR but not as manager! Old yellow teeth will reading that thinking PLEASE, PLEASE LET THAT BE TRUE! The media will be backing Kennedy now! " Where in there do you use Greig as the caveat ? Gimme a break. McCoist did NOT inherit a "great team". That is nonsense. What made it great ? We have been a poor team but one which won the league the last 3 seasons. But a great team ? Sorry, that to me seems nothing more than an attempt to suggest that McCoist took a "great team" and made them poor. Nope, I aint buying it. We, and the rest of the SPL, have been very poor for a long time now. but PLG had as much, if not more, than McCoist to spend did he not ? And other than our first 3 o4 4 games we looked poor. PLG left when we were trailing Celtic significantly - and with none of the off-field financial nonsense taking place. The start McCoist's team had was far, far superior to the one PLG's had. Take a look at the points gained over the same period. As calscot pointed out, McCoist's team had one of the best starts EVER to an SPL campaign. So if you want to put the start of the season in context due to considering all factors then we have to also consider we lost our most "unreplaceable" player whilst we were winning games and generally doing well. We should ALSO consider that McCoist was NOT backed by his chairman to obtain his first OR second choice players. Dont forget that there was NOT ONE signing that was McCoist's first OR second choice - so he had to make do with 3rd choice signings - given that he actually did reasonably well in the transfer market. PLG was backed better by SDM, there is no doubt. He was allowed to sign Papac, Sionko, Clement and..... dare I say it.... Sebo. See, PLG was no genius in the transfer market either. The only one of those to have truly proven themselves since Rangers is Papac.... who is still here funnily enough. You may have, but I havent.... have you studied the history of Rangers, the WHOLE history, to determine that McCoist is the worst EVER ?? Because that is what you said and that is a rather bold statement from someone who hasnt been around for all of that history. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingerger 0 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 however there have been glimpses at times of good play/tactics etc at times, just not enough.I am not convinced about his long term suitability, but I am willing to give him a chance!!! When? When was the last time Rangers showed any form of cohesion or teamwork? Sorry Guys, but I also believe that Ally is a hopeless manager tactically. That problem will have to be addressed after everything else is sorted out I'm afraid. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 If putting in 20 game winning streaks was easy for either of the OF they'd be doing it all the time. I would say that that winning streak would have put a dent in any Rangers manager's 9 point lead and probably brought it back to parity. After a good run you usually get a less than good one unless your a team that is good enough to accumulate over 100 points in a season which doesn't happen often - once in the SPL I think. Lennon had his bad run at the beginning, it's evened out a bit now and you could extrapolate their points to 95 for the season - which would win the league most years or at least take you very close in others. I would expect Walter Smith to be doing quite well have that kind of total in a normal season - this season it would be a miracle, even if we didn't experience as dramatic a "freefall". But if he did, we'd still be 10 points behind. People always talk as if this year's non-OF SPL's competition is the worst ever. Maybe it is but you are limited by your environment. We can only really gauge managers for their performance in the league they are in and I think Lennon has shown that if nothing else he's not shit at getting a reasonable amount of points on the board. Advocaat, Eck and PLG have all done worse in some seasons. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthter 542 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 When? When was the last time Rangers showed any form of cohesion or teamwork? Sorry Guys, but I also believe that Ally is a hopeless manager tactically. That problem will have to be addressed after everything else is sorted out I'm afraid. Start of the season.... Recent game against Dunfermline.... and one or two others dotted in between... The problem is that its not happening regularly enough. 4-2 win against Celtic...followed by 3-2 defeat by Falkirk 4-0 win against Hibs...followed by 2-0 defeat to Utd 4-1 win against Dunfermline...followed by 1-0 defeat to Killie 4-1 win against ICT...following by 2-1 defeat to Hearts Looking at that...maybe its just whne we score 4 goals.. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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