A Match for Europe & The Debate (BBC)

[BrahimHemdani 1]

Many thanks for all these helpful contributions.

 

Please bear in mind if you watch tomorrow night (BBC 10.35pm):

 

• I am there in my capacity as Chair of SD Scotland, so I do not represent Rangers FC, or any particular Supporters Group.
   
  
• The show may be presented as "live" but it is being pre-recorded at 7pm for transmission later, so may well be heavily edited.
   
  
• I may be left on the cutting room floor.
  

[54andcounting 0]

The 'Scottish' game has been spiralling into oblivion for decades along with other European leagues, the Germans the Italians the French along with countries like Portugal and Holland have managed to keep their heads above water, just to compete. The English and Spanish have 'taken' the game to a global level which is having a detrimental affect on the game itself, too many sheikhs with a toy to play come to mind.

 

Football when I was introduced to it was a working man's plaything something to take our minds off the hardship off normal life, let's say it was a drug to most of the working class. I'm not trying to be political here just saying it as it was. Look at the 1960's Hibs, Dunfermline Kilmarnock & Rangers reached Semi finals of Europes elite competition the bheasts won it ffs? Rangers reached three euro finals and were a feared and respected club all over Europe like others from Hungary, Yugoslavia, Austria, Belgium as such.

 

Nowadays it's all about Barcelona & Man Utd. I'm sick of it, but there's nothing I can do about it so the program about "A Match For Europe & The Debate" doesn't fill me with hope.....seen it all before, sorry BH.

[Gribz 966]

The 'Scottish' game has been spiralling into oblivion for decades along with other European leagues, the Germans the Italians the French along with countries like Portugal and Holland have managed to keep their heads above water, just to compete. The English and Spanish have 'taken' the game to a global level which is having a detrimental affect on the game itself, too many sheikhs with a toy to play come to mind.

 

Football when I was introduced to it was a working man's plaything something to take our minds off the hardship off normal life, let's say it was a drug to most of the working class. I'm not trying to be political here just saying it as it was. Look at the 1960's Hibs, Dunfermline Kilmarnock & Rangers reached Semi finals of Europes elite competition the bheasts won it ffs? Rangers reached three euro finals and were a feared and respected club all over Europe like others from Hungary, Yugoslavia, Austria, Belgium as such.

 

Nowadays it's all about Barcelona & Man Utd. I'm sick of it, but there's nothing I can do about it so the program about "A Match For Europe & The Debate" doesn't fill me with hope.....seen it all before, sorry BH.

 

Agree with much of this. But a lot of it has been orchastrated and no doubt the aim is to eventually have a more global structure (same as everything else in life) with the elite clubs playing in a Super League. We've seen it with the dissapearance of the cup winners cup and the devaluing of the UEFA cup.

 

Those who run the game are rotten / corrupt to the core. Just take the simple seedings rule in WC / Euro Championships Qualifiers AND tournaments along with Champions League qualifier AND groups and you see straight away its about giving those elite countries / clubs an advantage while the rest go backwards. How on earth are teams supposed to compete and improve when they dont get a chance of a run in these things when straight away they come up against a big boy and get whipped. People say there is no point in San Marino turning up but when the deck is stacked against them in the first place they have no chance. Stick them in a group with Malta and Andorra and they get more competitive.

Im against seeding, who cares if Italy draw Germany in a qualifying group....in fact thats what we want to see! It makes the qualifiers more interesting rather than meaningless internationals when people switch off for a week.

The FA cup without seeds proves why it is more interesting when Man U get Liverpool away in the 3rd round.

 

As for the Scottish game where do you start! There is a fear for restructuring the leagues and even playing football in the summer cant be debated. The SFA/SPL have never had the balls to give something a try (they are probably not allowed to!) and if it doesnt work out then hold the hands up and switch things back.

 

As mentioned the spiral downwards in the last 15 years is huge and its still going a quick pace.

 

The League Cup (formally Skol Cup) used to be as attractive and interesting as the Scottish Cup but they cant even run that right these days. Bring it back to an October Final rather than having a 5 month break between the semi's and the final.

The 4 division structure has helped the game go backwards and the SPL split is embarrassing.

 

Enjoy the debate BH there will probably be some good opinions and ideas brought up but it wont produce anything.

[BrahimHemdani 1]

The 'Scottish' game has been spiralling into oblivion for decades along with other European leagues, the Germans the Italians the French along with countries like Portugal and Holland have managed to keep their heads above water, just to compete. The English and Spanish have 'taken' the game to a global level which is having a detrimental affect on the game itself, too many sheikhs with a toy to play come to mind.

 

Football when I was introduced to it was a working man's plaything something to take our minds off the hardship off normal life, let's say it was a drug to most of the working class. I'm not trying to be political here just saying it as it was. Look at the 1960's Hibs, Dunfermline Kilmarnock & Rangers reached Semi finals of Europes elite competition the bheasts won it ffs? Rangers reached three euro finals and were a feared and respected club all over Europe like others from Hungary, Yugoslavia, Austria, Belgium as such.

 

Nowadays it's all about Barcelona & Man Utd. I'm sick of it, but there's nothing I can do about it so the program about "A Match For Europe & The Debate" doesn't fill me with hope.....seen it all before, sorry BH.

 

I wouldn't argue with any of that (I too stood on the terracings of the late 50's and early 60's watching: Millar, Brand and Wilson) but as you say those times are past and smaller footballing countries than us have shown they can rise up the rankings e.g Cyprus and Israel, so we either try to do SOMETHING or sink further and further down the ladder.

[BrahimHemdani 1]

Agree with much of this. But a lot of it has been orchastrated and no doubt the aim is to eventually have a more global structure (same as everything else in life) with the elite clubs playing in a Super League. We've seen it with the dissapearance of the cup winners cup and the devaluing of the UEFA cup.

 

Those who run the game are rotten / corrupt to the core. Just take the simple seedings rule in WC / Euro Championships Qualifiers AND tournaments along with Champions League qualifier AND groups and you see straight away its about giving those elite countries / clubs an advantage while the rest go backwards. How on earth are teams supposed to compete and improve when they dont get a chance of a run in these things when straight away they come up against a big boy and get whipped. People say there is no point in San Marino turning up but when the deck is stacked against them in the first place they have no chance. Stick them in a group with Malta and Andorra and they get more competitive.

Im against seeding, who cares if Italy draw Germany in a qualifying group....in fact thats what we want to see! It makes the qualifiers more interesting rather than meaningless internationals when people switch off for a week.

The FA cup without seeds proves why it is more interesting when Man U get Liverpool away in the 3rd round.

 

As for the Scottish game where do you start! There is a fear for restructuring the leagues and even playing football in the summer cant be debated. The SFA/SPL have never had the balls to give something a try (they are probably not allowed to!) and if it doesnt work out then hold the hands up and switch things back.

 

As mentioned the spiral downwards in the last 15 years is huge and its still going a quick pace.

 

The League Cup (formally Skol Cup) used to be as attractive and interesting as the Scottish Cup but they cant even run that right these days. Bring it back to an October Final rather than having a 5 month break between the semi's and the final.

The 4 division structure has helped the game go backwards and the SPL split is embarrassing.

 

Enjoy the debate BH there will probably be some good opinions and ideas brought up but it wont produce anything.

 

Agree with most of this as well, especially about seeding.

 

The SPL has lost 400,000+ spectators in 2 seasons, pretty soon football will be played in empty stadia.

 

BUT note that summer football IS back on the agenda (or at least an earlier start and a winter break) courtesy of a convincing presentation from an SD Council Member (not me!) at the last SFA Council meeting and SD have a plan for revitalising the LC (more anon).

[BrahimHemdani 1]

Good night, thanks again to all who contributed.

[Zappa 0]

There needs to be more promotion and development of football in schools. Young boys who would like to play football are currently forced to rely on parents when they shouldn't have to... certainly not to the same extent. Instead of being given the opportunity to play football, in many Scottish schools they're forced to choose between other sporting options that a particular school has a good tradition and record for competing in. That mindset doesn't benefit kids, it benefits the records and traditions of schools, but the kids are the most important thing in schooling, so the whole thing is completely backwards in many schools which primarily promote the rugby, hockey teams etc.

[54andcounting 0]

I wouldn't argue with any of that (I too stood on the terracings of the late 50's and early 60's watching: Millar, Brand and Wilson) but as you say those times are past and smaller footballing countries than us have shown they can rise up the rankings e.g Cyprus and Israel, so we either try to do SOMETHING or sink further and further down the ladder.

 

I'm in complete agreement with you, but also I'm in despair! I'm now one of those who would rather Rangers re-emerge with ALL their history intact and be re-born into the english league. I know there are folk who don't ever want to see that but maybe I'm being selfish or whatever but honestly I'm pissed off with all what's been said about Rangers from certain quarters and would be happy for my club and whoever is in charge to announce from next year we will be members of the FA.

[Zappa 0]

Gribz, you made some cracking points there!

[Gribz 966]

They are slowly making the changes towards a more global structure at the highest level for clubs like Barca and Man Utd. They are trying to get from A-Z in small steps like doing away with Cup Winners Cup would be like going from A-D and the fans just accept the change....but when they take too big a leap i.e A-J then fans stand up and show they have a voice and the powers that be cant make that change. The one prime example of this that I didnt add is when they tried to make a 39th Premier League game and take it abroad...that was a step too far and everyone had a say that it was madness. They tried to follow the NFL who already have a NFL fixture every season at Wembley.

 

But rest assured the plan for a 39th game overseas will be back on the agenda in the not too far future.

 

EDIT: An additional thing that contributed to the downfall of the Scottish game was the end of 3 foreigner rule. It allowed more money being spent on foreigners and slowed down the process of any young players coming through. It probably also created a bigger gap between the OF ,who had the spending power, and the rest of the SPL.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Gribz