Suarez v Evra

[Zappa 0]

Bermuda is a majority-Black country.

 

People here get in a lather about being called "coloured" and prefer to be called "black".

 

Just saying.

 

Blacks in America prefer to be called black as well. A lot of them call themselves and one-another nigger and negro too, but it's not said in a derogatory manner at all. They actually use it as a slang term of endearment almost like they use "bro" or like we use "mate".

 

Very strange racial politics going on in this world when black men can call each other niggers, but white men can't call them the same thing. I suppose it's a little like the absurdity of what's going on in Scotland with many Celtic fans referring to themselves as fenians, but Rangers fans not being allowed to do likewise because it's deemed as derogatory.

[Super_Ally 0]

Very strange racial politics going on in this world when black men can call each other niggers, but white men can't call them the same thing. I suppose it's a little like the absurdity of what's going on in Scotland with many Celtic fans referring to themselves as fenians, but Rangers fans not being allowed to do likewise because it's deemed as derogatory.

 

Yet everyone can use hun with impunity.

[craig 5,199]

Zappa, in America it is very, very rarely a term of endearment for one black guy to call another "nigger". I assure you. It is, more often than not, used as a preface to confrontation.

 

Regardless, in North America and the caribbeanthe "appropriate" term is considered to be to say someone is "black".

 

It changes so bloody often that I actually ask colleagues how I should refer to them !

[Zappa 0]

In America it depends on what part of black culture we're talking about Craig. The B-Boy, Rapper and Gangster (as well as some other) sides of black culture use nigger all the time in a completely non-derogatory manner, even regularly referring to themselves personally as niggers. They'll even greet one-another with phrases like "Yo nigga" etc. One of the most famous Hip Hop/Rap acts of all time called themselves N.W.A. which stood for Niggaz Wit Attitude (or something like that). They named tracks and albums with titles like Real Niggaz Don't Die and Niggaz 4 Life. This is just one example I'm talking about here, but it's an important one because Hip Hop and Rap competely transformed a large section of black culture in America. Obviously there's other sections of black culture over there where using the word nigger or nigga would be seen as offensive and a big no no, such as places like the deep south due to the history of black culture and racism there. Then obviously there's the upper class who undoubtedly won't be stoating about calling one-another Niggaz....

[craig 5,199]

In America it depends on what part of black culture we're talking about Craig. The B-Boy, Rapper and Gangster (as well as some other) sides of black culture use nigger all the time in a completely non-derogatory manner, even regularly referring to themselves personally as niggers. They'll even greet one-another with phrases like "Yo nigga" etc. One of the most famous Hip Hop/Rap acts of all time called themselves N.W.A. which stood for Niggaz Wit Attitude (or something like that). They named tracks and albums with titles like Real Niggaz Don't Die and Niggaz 4 Life. This is just one example I'm talking about here, but it's an important one because Hip Hop and Rap competely transformed a large section of black culture in America. Obviously there's other sections of black culture over there where using the word nigger or nigga would be seen as offensive and a big no no, such as places like the deep south due to the history of black culture and racism there. Then obviously there's the upper class who undoubtedly won't be stoating about calling one-another Niggaz....

 

B-Boy, Rapper and Gangster are not what I would call the "real" America Zappa - more of a musical culture if you will. Go into the ghetto and call somebody a "nigger" and you are basically asking them for a fight.

 

And you are correct, they refer to themselves as niggers but that doesnt mean anyone else can. Celtic fans call themselves fenians, but heaven help anyone else that does.

 

Much as though bands and songs use the term, I am quite comfortable in saying that when you see it used in everyday walks of life (and lets not kid ourselves, these bands and songs are not a true reflection ot everyday life) you would be getting a fist in the face.

[Zappa 0]

B-Boy, Rapper and Gangster are not what I would call the "real" America Zappa - more of a musical culture if you will.

 

I agree and disagree with you here because while of course it's a musical culture, it did become a very popular influence on black youth culture in general ("pop" culture if you will), not just in the ghettos and slums. The rise to stardom and wealth of the Hip Hop and Rap stars in America wasn't just influencing the lower classes either, it was influencing middle and even upper class black youths and you're not just talking about the fashion scene, you're talking about the influence on language too. I bet there were thousands upon thousands of wealthy black businesmen, doctors, lawyers, polititians, scientists etc etc, who were mortified by what their kids were listening to, wearing and saying in the 90's and even still to this day.

 

I do know there's LOADS of exceptions to what I'm saying here btw, so please don't think I'm trying to over-generalise black culture in America. I'm simply talking about some important aspects/areas of it.

 

Go into the ghetto and call somebody a "nigger" and you are basically asking them for a fight.

 

And you are correct, they refer to themselves as niggers but that doesnt mean anyone else can. Celtic fans call themselves fenians, but heaven help anyone else that does.

 

That's essentially what I originally said.

 

Much as though bands and songs use the term, I am quite comfortable in saying that when you see it used in everyday walks of life (and lets not kid ourselves, these bands and songs are not a true reflection ot everyday life) you would be getting a fist in the face.

 

I'm not saying bands and songs are always a true reflection of everyday life though. Sometimes they are and sometimes they aren't. What I'm saying is that music cultures influence everyday life. They always have and probably always will.

[Gazza_8 233]

This thread is slightly surreal!

[pete 2,499]

This is the problem with any law where the boundaries are so unclear. It is all open to interpretation. Look at how many opinions on Rangers are shot about on here and we are all on the same side. One man's meat is another man's poison.

[BrahimHemdani 1]

This thread is slightly surreal!

 

When I started it, I didn't think I was going to get a lesson on Hip Hop and Rap

[BrahimHemdani 1]

Getting back to the case in point!

 

167. According to the experts, the Spanish word "negro" cannot simply be translated as

"nigger". Whereas "nigger" refers exclusively to a person with dark skin, "negro" can be

used both as a noun ("a black") and as an adjective; as an adjective it might be used to refer

to a person ("un hombre negro" [a black man]) but equally to an object ("una caja negra" [a

black box]).

 

168. It is important to grasp that the word "negro" is ambiguous in all countries and regions of

Latin America.

 

169. In Uruguay and other areas of Latin America, some people who self-identify as black

object to the use of the word "negro" as a term of address, as they say it highlights skin

colour when this should be irrelevant; they point out that the term "blanco" [white] is

rarely used in this fashion. Others, however, actively claim the term "negro" as a political

identity, seeking to overturn its possible negative connotations.

 

170. The word "negro" can have pejorative connotations, as it may be associated with low class

status, ugliness, vulgar behaviour, noisiness, violence, dishonesty, sexual promiscuity etc.

In the River Plate region, for example, "los negros" is sometimes employed as a general

term for the lower classes and especially for lower-class people whose behaviour is

deemed vulgar and not "respectable".

 

171. Thus, the word can be employed with the intent to offend and to offend in racial terms;

often the word would be appended with further insult, as in the example "negro de

mierda" [shitty black].

 

172. The word "negro" is by no means, however, always used offensively. The term can also be

used as a friendly form of address to someone seen as somewhat brown-skinned or even

just black-haired. It may be used affectionately between man and wife, or

girlfriend/boyfriend, it may be used as a nickname in everyday speech, it may be used to

identify in neutral and descriptive fashion someone of dark skin; several famous people in

Uruguay are known as "el negro/la negra such-and-such".

 

173. "Negro" can be used in the same way that other words referring to physical characteristics

are used as descriptors for particular individuals, eg "el flaco" [the thin one/beanpole] or

"el gordo" [the fat one/fatso]; these words can also be used without the article, eg "hola,

gordo" [hi, fatso] or "chau, flaco" [bye, beanpole]; thus, a group of friends waiting for

another friend might exclaim "mira, ahi viene el negro" [look, here comes the black

one/blackie].

 

174. In Latin America, other terms may be used in ways that sound odd to a European ear. In

Colombia, the word "mono" (literally, "monkey") is used to address light-skinned people

or people whose hair is lighter than pure black. In Mexico, the word "güero" is used to

address blond or light-haired people. In many areas, the word "moreno" [brown] may be

used as a term of address in similar ways to "negro.

 

175. Though these terms are often used between friends or relatives, they are not used

exclusively so; thus, an individual might call out to a passer-by "ay, negro, querés jugar

con nosotros?" [hey, blackie, do you want to play with us?]; in all cases, however, when

the word is used in this way it implies a sense of rapport or the attempt to create such

rapport; naturally, if the term were used with a sneer, then it might carry some of the

negative connotations referred to above.

 

176. In Latin America more widely, the term "negro" can be used to refer to any person

perceived to have darker skin than the user of the word; in the River Plate region, the

word is also sometimes used to refer to someone with very dark hair.