Suarez v Evra

[BrahimHemdani 1]

But he is a negro, or has that word been banned now?

 

I thought it was 'nigger' that you couldn't use!

 

All the exchanges were in Spanish. "Negro" in Spanish means "black". According to the expert witnesses there is no Spanish equivalent for the word nigger.

 

The reference to Evra's colour was regarded as an "aggravating factor" to the otherwise insulting behaviour.

 

One of the facts that the tribunal decided was proven was that Suarez said he kicked Evra because he was black.

[BrahimHemdani 1]

Interesting point because this whole thing seems to be based on the "word" of Evra.

 

It's not that his word isn't valuable (or true for that matter), but if he's the only witness, then it's a strange situation when the FA just take his word as a root source for taking action.

 

What Evra told Fergie means absolutely nothing and proves nothing.

 

One of the factors that led the tribunal to believe him was that he complained twice to the refereee at the time and again after the match and also there were four MU players who said he said the same in the dressing room and their evidence was not challenged.

Edited January 8, 2012 by BrahimHemdani

[BrahimHemdani 1]

Evra ......... has an unhealthy attitude towards South Americans. Same thing.

 

There was absolutely no evidence of that in the hearing. Evra called Suarez a South American but there was no evidence that he said that in a derogatory way and it was not suggested by Suarez Counsel.

[Guest Dutchy]

Alan Hanson, I heard used the word çoloured and had to apologize for doings so, then I heard that Tom English use the term quite happily on Radio Scotland and nothing was said. I'm getting confused as to what's offenesive these days, and what's illegal.

 

I just thought of a joke there, but I'll not use it as I know I'm being watched, in colour for all I know. lol

[BrahimHemdani 1]

And they gave him an 8 game ban even though they don't really 100% believe the word of Evra?

 

Crazy.

 

In these cases the test is not that of a criminal court i.e. beyond a reasonable doubt;

 

"The applicable standard of proof shall be the flexible civil standard of the balance of

probability. The more serious the allegation, taking into account the nature of the

Misconduct alleged and the context of the case, the greater the burden of evidence

required to prove the matter."

 

Basically they considered that Evra was a more credible witness and his statements were actually supported to some extent by the Liverpool witnesses. Suarez changed his story three times and there were other inconsistences that led the tribunal to regard him as a less reliable witness.

[BrahimHemdani 1]

It's not just on Evra's word. Suarez admitted saying "negro" and the Liverpool PR guy confirmed it as well. It was the number of times that it was used that is up for question.

 

Correct.

 

Suarez case was that he only used the word "negro" once in a friendly way but if you read all the evidence that just wasn't credible.

 

I also thought that his Counsel made a big mistake in arguing that Evra made up the allegations to get back at Suarez for the kick on his knee that started the whole thing off. The explanations that Suarez gave for pinching Evra's arm and patting him on the head weren't credible either and the tribunal didn't believe him.

Edited January 8, 2012 by BrahimHemdani

[BrahimHemdani 1]

Alan Hanson, I heard used the word çoloured and had to apologize for doings so, then I heard that Tom English use the term quite happily on Radio Scotland and nothing was said. I'm getting confused as to what's offenesive these days, and what's illegal.

 

I just thought of a joke there, but I'll not use it as I know I'm being watched, in colour for all I know. lol

 

I think a lot of people would share your concern that referring to someone as "coloured" rather than say "black" was offensive rather than simply a statement of fact.

 

The English FA Rules under which Suarez was charged however are quite clear:

 

Rule E3, with the sub-heading "General Behaviour", provides as follows:

 

"(1) A Participant shall at all times act in the best interests of the game and shall not

act in any manner which is improper or brings the game into disrepute or use

any one, or a combination of, violent conduct, serious foul play, threatening,

abusive, indecent or insulting words or behaviour.

 

(2) In the event of any breach of Rule E3(1) including a reference to any one or

more of a person's ethnic origin, colour, race, nationality, faith, gender, sexual

orientation or disability (an "aggravating factor"), a Regulatory Commission

shall consider the imposition of an increased sanction, taking into account the

following entry points:

 

For a first offence, a sanction that is double that which the Regulatory

Commission would have applied had the aggravating factor not been present.

 

For a second offence, a sanction that is treble that which the Regulatory

Commission would have applied had the aggravating factor not been present.

 

Any further such offence(s) shall give rise to consideration of a permanent

suspension.

 

These entry points are intended to guide the Regulatory Commission and are

not mandatory.

[craig 5,199]

Bermuda is a majority-Black country.

 

People here get in a lather about being called "coloured" and prefer to be called "black".

 

Just saying.

[Gazza_8 233]

Bermuda is a majority-Black country.

 

People here get in a lather about being called "coloured" and prefer to be called "black".

 

Just saying.

 

[BrahimHemdani 1]

Bermuda is a majority-Black country.

 

People here get in a lather about being called "coloured" and prefer to be called "black".

 

Just saying.

 

Interesting point, showing how attitudes differ from country to country.

 

It was argued for Suarez that it is perfectly acceptable in Uruguay to refer to someone as "hey blackie" in much the same way as we would say "hey big man" but the experts said it depended on the context. The tribunal held that in the confrontation between Suarez and Evra it was most likely not a term of endearment.

 

One of the most damming pieces of evidence came from Comolli of Liverpool who had interviewed Suarez in the dressing room and told the ref that when Evra asked why he (Suarez) had kicked him Suarez responded "porque tu eres negro" meaning "Because you're black". He later denied having made that statement, but the 4th official had recorded it and had asked him to spell it at the time. So the tribunal decided it was a fact. They also decided he had said "I don't speak to blacks".

 

Of course the tribunal also rightly decided that in any event, since Suarez is earning a his living in England, the English FA Rules apply.

 

My personal opinion is that Liverpool's attitude to this is shameful and Suarez has yet to issue a direct apology to Evra.

 

Goodness knows what will happen in the return fixture; Suarez will be eligible to play.

Edited January 8, 2012 by BrahimHemdani