craig 5,199 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Disagree, the goalie and the manager are both out of order. Where is the disagree button ? I would have to hit the "agree" AND "disagree" button. I agree Re the manager but disagree Re the keeper. He defended himself, IMO. It may be in the rules, but a player getting sent off for defending himself against someone who is not even involved in the game is lunacy to me. By involved I mean, players, coaches, management - but not fans, they are not supposed to be near the field of play. And you may say he wasnt defending himself. That is your prerogative - but he is in his workplace and certainly not expecting what happened, instinct will have him do what he did. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I can't believe you are being serious here. How can it be self defence to kick a guy not once but twice when he's lying on the ground? Would you say the same if the guy got up and stabbed the keeper ? I doubt it. Reality is the keeper had absolutely NO IDEA what this idiot was doing or what he was carrying. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrahimHemdani 1 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Would you arrest the keeper Mr plod? I am not a polis Dutch or Scottish but I'd be astonished if he isn't arrested and of course the spectator. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrahimHemdani 1 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Would you say the same if the guy got up and stabbed the keeper ? I doubt it. Reality is the keeper had absolutely NO IDEA what this idiot was doing or what he was carrying. You can't take the law into your own hands, as the "big man" on the train incident clearly demonstrates. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Agree with BH on this. The keeper was wrong to over-react and the manager was wrong to take his squad off the field of play. In both cases they were breaking the rules of the game and you don't just break the rules of the game because some idiot runs on the park. So, lets get this straight. The keeper is breaking the rules by showing violent conduct, correct ? OK, so if we agree on that then you are saying that the keeper only had the option of running from this guy, because lashing out in any way is violent conduct, regardless of the actions of the fan. What if the guy was quicker ? What if he was carrying a blade ? The keeper should have shown restraint because by not doing so it is "not in the rules of the game". That is, IMO, bullshit. The keeper was doing nothing more than protecting himself - the rules of football go out the window when you are confronted with a completely unexpected scenario the way he was. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrahimHemdani 1 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 And you may say he wasnt defending himself. That is your prerogative - but he is in his workplace and certainly not expecting what happened, instinct will have him do what he did. He kicked out and downed the guy in the first instance; I would say that that is defending yourself; but once the man is down (and the steward is almost there) IMHO kicking theman who is down is not self defence. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 You can't take the law into your own hands, as the "big man" on the train incident clearly demonstrates. So just roll over and let the guy kick the shit our of him ? Fair enough. But I would do as the keeper did. All far too easy to see this from the comfort of our sofas. Any of us been put in this position ? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,199 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 He kicked out and downed the guy in the first instance; I would say that that is defending yourself; but once the man is down (and the steward is almost there) IMHO kicking theman who is down is not self defence. The steward was "almost" there..... that is like saying "the steward ALMOST stopped the keeper from being stabbed". Doesnt really stand up in that context, does it ? I am with S_A, the 2nd kick is ensuring the guy isnt getting back up to continue his attack. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrahimHemdani 1 Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Update. The Dutch FA have cancelled the red card. It has become known that the hooligan already had a stadium ban and shouldn`t have been inside the ground at all. That's irrelevant to the conduct of the goalkeeper but adds to Ajax problems. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrahimHemdani 1 Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/16300956.stm youtube links keep getting pulled so here's the BBC one. It's violent conduct so the ref had to obey the letter of the law. The keeper should have shown some restraint, the guy was down, stewards were getting there. Obviously you don't expect to be attacked whilst going about your job, but you do have to show a certain amount of restraint and he should have just got himself out of there. This clearly shows the steward well on the way there before the goalie kicks the fan on the ground and he is right there when the second kick goes in. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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