Ajax -AZ abandoned through a hooligan

[BrahimHemdani 1]

Unfortunately these incidents seem to be on the up again, do these idiots not realise that they could get all the supporters behind those horrible fences again

 

That certainly is true and at exactly the wrong time when safe standing is being reconsidered in Scotland.

 

One incident like that here on top of the attack on Mr Lennon last season and the Police will stop it dead in its tracks.

[BrahimHemdani 1]

use Plan B and run like F*+k.

that would be me for sure or hitch a ride

[Super_Ally 0]

I'll try to answer all your points together if I may Super-Ally.

 

Firstly I was coming at this from my perspective as an ex-referee, which is what I thought was being asked of me; I just said at #90 that I understand that Pete (and others including your good self) are looking at it from a different perspective. I respect that point of view 100%.

 

The views that I express on here are my own and not those of SD unless I specifically state otherwise.

 

I do not "represent" Scottish fans. I am the Chair of the Scottish Council of SD, which has approx 15,000 members. We are, however, currently trying to become more representative of Scottish fans through the Scottish Football Supporters Network (SFSN). Directly or indirectly the total membership of SD/SFSN is now in excess of 63,000 and rising rapidly. More than 1,100 individuals alone have signed up through the current survey.

 

One thing that we are trying very hard to achieve at the moment is that the proposed new Code of Conduct or Fan's Charter that will be brought in from next season, gets the widest possible input and consultation with fans and that will start to happen in the new year.

 

You are correct that I am not a fighter and you are also correct of course that the question of "excessive force" on or off a football pitch is a matter of opinion for the football authorities or the courts.

 

I hope that clarifies my position and that of SD.

 

Shouldn't have gotten my views on SD to get caught up in this. I'm not really a fan of the concept at all but should have kept that for another thread. So apologies for that.

 

Maybe it's because I have been in a couple of fights and been attacked before but I do get really wound up by people sitting safely on their sofas saying he took it too far. Also seems people are more concered for the safety of the attacker then that of the victim. I'm sorry but if you start a fight and come off second best then tough shit. I'm not a fighter by nature, dont want people getting the wrong idea there. I dont start fights but have had numerous people start on me, perils of a typical night out in the UK and probably no doubt elsewhere. Too easy to say what is excessive force when you are not the one on the receiving end.

 

To be fair I also didn't see that you were commenting on your perspective as a referee before some of those replies. Dont always read an entire thread before replying to a post. So in that context it is correct the ref would card him by the laws of the game. But it is a bs law that needs changing.

[Zappa 0]

I wouldn't have a problem with the goalie knocking seven shades of shit out of the guy if he touched his wife's arse at a party or something like that, but the guy is just a ticket who ran onto a football pitch. It's part and parcel of being a football player that some idiot will run onto the pitch once or twice during your career, but starting booting hell out of the idiot isn't the right thing to do as a professional football player. As I said before, maybe 20 to 30 years ago that would have been acceptable conduct from a player in football, but these days? I don't think so.

[pete 2,499]

I wouldn't have a problem with the goalie knocking seven shades of shit out of the guy if he touched his wife's arse at a party or something like that, but the guy is just a ticket who ran onto a football pitch. It's part and parcel of being a football player that some idiot will run onto the pitch once or twice during your career, but starting booting hell out of the idiot isn't the right thing to do as a professional football player. As I said before, maybe 20 to 30 years ago that would have been acceptable conduct from a player in football, but these days? I don't think so.

 

Lets get things into perspective. The keeper kicked the guy's feet twice. He certainly never kicked the hell out of him. The keeper obviously was still on an adrenaline rush as he almost took the steward on as well. He obviously was not acting with premeditation and had no idea what was happening around him as he thought the steward was also an attacker.

[juffery 0]

Lets get things into perspective. The keeper kicked the guy's feet twice. He certainly never kicked the hell out of him. The keeper obviously was still on an adrenaline rush as he almost took the steward on as well. He obviously was not acting with premeditation and had no idea what was happening around him as he thought the steward was also an attacker.

 

I worked in a job where I was regularly punched, kicked, spat on, attacked with knives etc etc. You have to get yourself safe and that's that. Any sort of retribution and you're up on charges.

 

Last time I take a job as a steward at Porkheid.

Edited December 24, 2011 by juffery
Subtle dig at the tims :-)

[Zappa 0]

Lets get things into perspective. The keeper kicked the guy's feet twice. He certainly never kicked the hell out of him. The keeper obviously was still on an adrenaline rush as he almost took the steward on as well. He obviously was not acting with premeditation and had no idea what was happening around him as he thought the steward was also an attacker.

 

I didn't say he kicked the hell out of him though pete, I said he STARTED booting the hell out of him. That keeper was out of control if you want to get things into perspective. He lost the plot because some twat ran on the pitch and ran towards him aggressively. People have been talking about blades/knives etc in this thread in terms of the "what if" factor, but that way of thinking doesn't make any sense to me. If the idiot had run at the keeper brandishing a knife, then fair enough, but he was just a pissed up or drugged up idiot. I don't think people are putting enough of a distinction here between what they would do themselves in real life and what a professional sportsman should do on the field of play. What IF a loonball did get onto a football pitch and run at a player with a knife? Is it ok for the player to dis-arm the idiot and start stabbing him with the knife in case he gets back up with another knife? Where do you draw the line?

[pete 2,499]

I didn't say he kicked the hell out of him though pete, I said he STARTED booting the hell out of him. That keeper was out of control if you want to get things into perspective. He lost the plot because some twat ran on the pitch and ran towards him aggressively. People have been talking about blades/knives etc in this thread in terms of the "what if" factor, but that way of thinking doesn't make any sense to me. If the idiot had run at the keeper brandishing a knife, then fair enough, but he was just a pissed up or drugged up idiot. I don't think people are putting enough of a distinction here between what they would do themselves in real life and what a professional sportsman should do on the field of play. What IF a loonball did get onto a football pitch and run at a player with a knife? Is it ok for the player to dis-arm the idiot and start stabbing him with the knife in case he gets back up with another knife? Where do you draw the line?

 

As I said keep it in perspective. This was a spur of the moment reaction, The two kicks were within seconds of each other after an attack from the back. The guy was acting out of pure instinct and not thought. Nothing to do with knives that is a totally different scenario. If a top lawyer and obviously the procurator fiscal and the Dutch FA agree with that then I will take that for being the case. As I said before, if the keeper was seen to think about it or kick the guy once the stewards had him in custody then it is a different story

[BrahimHemdani 1]

As I said keep it in perspective. This was a spur of the moment reaction, The two kicks were within seconds of each other after an attack from the back. The guy was acting out of pure instinct and not thought. Nothing to do with knives that is a totally different scenario. If a top lawyer and obviously the procurator fiscal and the Dutch FA agree with that then I will take that for being the case. As I said before, if the keeper was seen to think about it or kick the guy once the stewards had him in custody then it is a different story

 

To be fair Pete, you were the one who raised the spectre of the spectator having a knife but surely Zappa is correct, if he was going to knife the goalie he would have run on brandishing it, would he not?

[craig 5,199]

I wouldn't have a problem with the goalie knocking seven shades of shit out of the guy if he touched his wife's arse at a party or something like that, but the guy is just a ticket who ran onto a football pitch. It's part and parcel of being a football player that some idiot will run onto the pitch once or twice during your career, but starting booting hell out of the idiot isn't the right thing to do as a professional football player. As I said before, maybe 20 to 30 years ago that would have been acceptable conduct from a player in football, but these days? I don't think so.

 

Sorry, but it should NEVER be part and parcel of a career for that to happen. No player should expect it any more than \i should expect someone to come into my office and do the same.

 

And as someone said (pete I think) he hardly booted the hell out of him.