Ajax -AZ abandoned through a hooligan

[BrahimHemdani 1]

Really respect your views BH but think on this one your looking at the incident just a bit to much like a Ref and the laws in general. The first law is look after ones safety and those we care about no matter where it happens and that includes a football pitch.

 

Maybe it will deter anymore muppets from running onto the pitch in Holland if the players know they can give as good as they get without any comeback.

 

Yes, GA, I've acknowledged that I am looking at this more from the point of view of a former ref (see #96) and equally I understand the point you and others are making. The problem that I see is where do you draw the line in terms of what might be considered an acceptable response by the keeper to such an attack. Clearly the Dutch FA considered that referee acted correctly within the Laws but equally that the goalkeeper's response was acceptable. I don't agree but that's just my personal opinion, most people on here are with you on this one. Fair does, it's all about opinion.

 

As I said to Pete, what will be really interesting now is what action, if any, the KNVB take against AZ and their coach and how they deal with the match itself.

 

My feeling for what it is worth, is that whatever the coach said about his players feeling unsafe, the real reason he took them off was because he didn't agree with the referee's actions. (On that, there is no way the ref could have left the goalkeeper on the park.) Also AZ cannot be seen to benefit from their illegal action (in a footballing sense) in taking their team of the park. It was the referee's call as to whether the players' safety was compromised or whether it was an isolated attack. If the ref felt that the safety of the players was at risk then the correct course was for him to abandon the match.

 

So here's my view:

 

 

• The coach is heavily fined (possibly suspended for a number of matches), severely reprimanded and warned to his future conduct.
  
• The Club are very heavily fined.
  
• The match is awarded to Ajax 3-0.
  

 

Do I expect the above to happen, no I don't!

 

Lastly (for now, because I think this is going to run for a while yet!) if you were an Ajax fan, how would you feel about the result of the match, would you accept that your fan caused the issue so you have to start again from the KO or would you think that regardless of the action of one mindless hooligan, AZ caused the problem by walking off, so should lose the points; and would you be happy to pay to see the same match again?

Edited December 28, 2011 by BrahimHemdani

[pete 2,499]

Yes, GA, I've acknowledged that I am looking at this more from the point of view of a former ref (see #96) and equally I understand the point you and others are making. The problem that I see is where do you draw the line in terms of what might be considered an acceptable response by the keeper to such an attack. Clearly the Dutch FA considered that referee acted correctly within the Laws but equally that the goalkeeper's response was acceptable. I don't agree but that's just my personal opinion, most people on here are with you on this one. Fair does, it's all about opinion.

 

As I said to Pete, what will be really interesting now is what action, if any, the KNVB take against AZ and their coach and how they deal with the match itself.

 

My feeling for what it is worth, is that whatever the coach said about his players feeling unsafe, the real reason he took them off was because he didn't agree with the referee's actions. (On that, there is no way the ref could have left the goalkeeper on the park.) Also AZ cannot be seen to benefit from their illegal action (in a footballing sense) in taking their team of the park. It was the referee's call as to whether the players' safety was compromised or whether it was an isolated attack. If the ref felt that the safety of the players was at risk then the correct course was for him to abandon the match.

 

So here's my view:

 

 

• The coach is heavily fined (possibly suspended for a number of matches), severely reprimanded and warned to his future conduct.
  
• The Club are very heavily fined.
  
• The match is awarded to Ajax 3-0.
  

 

Do I expect the above to happen, no I don't!

 

Lastly (for now, because I think this is going to run for a while yet!) if you were an Ajax fan, how would you feel about the result of the match, would you accept that your fan caused the issue so you have to start again from the KO or would you think that regardless of the action of one mindless hooligan, AZ caused the problem by walking off, so should lose the points; and would you be happy to pay to see the same match again?

 

Personally I think the decision will be: No action taken against the manager and the game will be played out as it was with 11 v 11. They will only play the remaining time of the first game. That is normally the Dutch way and I will be amazed if it is any different. The big Question for me is if any fans will be allowed in to see the remainder of the game.

[BrahimHemdani 1]

Personally I think the decision will be: No action taken against the manager and the game will be played out as it was with 11 v 11. They will only play the remaining time of the first game. That is normally the Dutch way and I will be amazed if it is any different. The big Question for me is if any fans will be allowed in to see the remainder of the game.

 

Based on what you have reported up to now, you are probably correct about no action against the manager or the AZ club and you won't be surprised to know that I would think that a terrible decision. So you are saying start at 1-0 with the remaining time left, the goalie on the park and no spectators? I can see the last two but I think they would have to start afresh at 0-0 for 90 mins but you obvioulsy know the Dutch psyche and so you may well be correct.

[pete 2,499]

Based on what you have reported up to now, you are probably correct about no action against the manager or the AZ club and you won't be surprised to know that I would think that a terrible decision. So you are saying start at 1-0 with the remaining time left, the goalie on the park and no spectators? I can see the last two but I think they would have to start afresh at 0-0 for 90 mins but you obvioulsy know the Dutch psyche and so you may well be correct.

For a normal abandonment, as in weather, the game is started where it finished even if there is only 10 minutes left to play. Whether Ajax are punished and the game is put back to start or even an AZ win is the big question imo.

[pete 2,499]

Update: The KNVB has decided that the game will be totally replayed with the score at 0-0 and 11-11 players on the field. Estaban is allowed to play in the game. The game will be played on the 19 of January probably in the Amsterdam Arena but without any supporters. Ajax also received one more match without supporters but only to come into working if there are any repeated incidents. They also received a 10.000 euro fine. Gert Jan verbeek has not been mentioned so I can only surmise that no action will be taken against him.

I also surmise that the red card will have no effect on points for future as it has been dropped.

 

P.S The fans will not be reimbursed with the money they spent on their tickets.

Edited December 28, 2011 by pete

[BrahimHemdani 1]

Update: The KNVB has decided that the game will be totally replayed with the score at 0-0 and 11-11 players on the field. Estaban is allowed to play in the game. The game will be played on the 19 of January probably in the Amsterdam Arena but without any supporters. Ajax also received one more match without supporters but only to come into working if there are any repeated incidents. They also received a 10.000 euro fine. Gert Jan verbeek has not been mentioned so I can only surmise that no action will be taken against him.

I also surmise that the red card will have no effect on points for future as it has been dropped.

 

P.S The fans will not be reimbursed with the money they spent on their tickets.

 

They must have got my text or at least the second one!

 

So Ajax get the entire blame, still think that is very unfair but so be it; are they accepting the verdict or any chance of an appeal?

[BrahimHemdani 1]

an AZ win

 

That wouldn't have been a possibility it would have been a recipe for anarchy.

[pete 2,499]

They must have got my text or at least the second one!

 

So Ajax get the entire blame, still think that is very unfair but so be it; are they accepting the verdict or any chance of an appeal?

 

Ajax have accepted the decision under protest and will not appeal the decision. The fact that the guy was already banned from the stadium played a big role in their verdict. That made it look like the control of people entering the stadium was poor and that of course was Ajax's job.

Ajax also stated that they would try and work with their next cup opponents at the Arena to give their fans a cheap deal as compensation.

Ajax stated they feel the decision is unfair and excessive as you do Brahim.

[pete 2,499]

Probably the last Update.

 

The hooligan who pleaded to having a low iq and drink problem(No excuse said the judge) was jailed for 6 months where he will do 4 months and the other 2 months will come into play if he offends again in the coming 2 years. He will have to register by a police station if Ajax, AZ or the Dutch team are playing for the coming 2 years.

 

Ajax are taking civil proceedings against him to try and reimburse the 10.000 euro fine they recieved from the KNVB.

The Ajax supporters club are also looking to take civil action against him for 300.000 euro's for their lost ticket money.

 

His advocate said he did it to win a bet of 50 euro's.

[Zappa 0]

His advocate said he did it to win a bet of 50 euro's.

 

What a muppet!